Sunak (General U.K. is Jaded thread)

C_J

I caught up with an (ex) pro-Europe / anti-Brexit mate recently. He was saying Brexit has been a net positive overall with reference to the economy, Russia/Ukraine & the vaccine rollout etc. He says he felt lied to by Remainers who basically said the sky would fall in the day we left the EU.

I thought this was a fairly surprising position to take, but illustrates how reasonable people can reach different perspectives on complex & nebulous things. I should point out this guy is a phD and a senior exec in oil & gas who has previously lived and worked in France. So not an idiot.

I think brexit so far has probably been a negative all things considered. I’d estimate it has cost the UK something like 0.2% of GDP a year since 2016 and I’d put roughly a 70% level of confidence on it.

vinnyt77

C_J I should point out this guy is a phD and a senior exec in oil & gas

“Senior exec in industry that is making record profits from regional and global uncertainty in favour of regional and global uncertainty”

Have I got the headline right?

alistair

C_J Coming home to roost now. Wee Jimmy’s hubbie has been arrested.

C_J

alistair aye lol

Tick tock, Nicola.

C_J

He voted to Remain Vinny but he says with the benefit of hindsight he thinks he was probably wrong. And then I said I didn’t agree with him.

Let’s try not to descend to sniping and snarking mate.

vinnyt77

C_J What’s the point of Brexit if not sniping / snarking!?

It’s difficult not to come to the conclusion that your mate’s hindsight view is heavily informed by the economic performance of the sector he works in, is it not? Vaccine roll-out? UK could have done whatever it wanted on this one, irrespective of our EU membership. Economy? If you’re an oil and gas exec, sure - things look great. For the vast, vast majority, the economy is a shit-show. I’m not even sure how Russia/Ukraine comes into it. Was your buddy suggesting our response to the conflict had been significantly different to the EU?

C_J

vinnyt77 well there’s certainly a lot to unpack there Vin. I won’t even try. Those are his views, I won’t defend or justify them.

Does he have a skewed perspective given his position? yes, probably, but he’s way to the left of me and supports higher taxes on energy profits for example. He has three youngish kids to worry about, he’ll be fine but what sort of place will he leave for them (is his thought process).

I guess my point was, there are all sorts of perspectives & realities out there, in addition to the mainstream media narrative. we should try to be more open-minded and curious rather than bitter and partisan. Right?

C_J

vinnyt77 I’m not even sure how Russia/Ukraine comes into it. Was your buddy suggesting our response to the conflict had been significantly different to the EU?

I think his feeling (and mine, to be honest) was that, had the UK been an EU member state, we may have been limited or inhibited in our support for Ukraine by the more cautious diplomatic line favoured in Paris and Berlin. His view is that Boris went all-in with Zelenskyy partly as a way of demonstrating the value of independence from the EU, of not having to take the views of war-shy energy-dependent German voters into consideration when deciding whether to send missiles to Kiev; and of shaming the rest of the EU into action.

I think we may have lost a few GDP points as we find our feet again after Brexit but, to be fair, Covid and Ukraine have probably been as good an example of the plus side as you could hope to find, and if you don’t share that view or at least have some sympathy with it I’m not sure there’s any circumstance in which you’d say Brexit had an upside.

Funky

SNP 😂

Hursty

Funky What’s going on then Funky? I guess the question is, how have they been ‘getting away with it’ for so long?

Funky

Hursty Yeah, we’ll see how the investigation goes, politicians always wiggle out of these things.

mono-stereo

C_J Wee Nicola will be hoping her resignation will allow her to avoid culpability for some “financial irregularities” that are currently being looked into.

Nice scoop here @C_J

alistair

Fancy the leader’s husband being party treasurer and chief executive. Corruption hiding in plain sight. The SNP couldn’t be trusted to run a whelk stall. Police all over their pound shop Mar-a-lago.

LT42

alistair bit rich for you to be pointing the finger at those in the north, is it not?

mono-stereo

I’m sure nothing will come of this and the Sturgeon-Miester will uphold her good name. And what a great name that is.

Sturgeon-Miester

mono-stereo

C_J I think his feeling (and mine, to be honest) was that, had the UK been an EU member state, we may have been limited or inhibited in our support for Ukraine by the more cautious diplomatic line favoured in Paris and Berlin.

Didn’t seem to make much of a difference when we gave Iraq it’s freedums back?

vinnyt77

C_J I’m not sure there’s any circumstance in which you’d say Brexit had an upside.

Honestly, I think of myself as someone who is open to new ideas, the benefit of trying something different… I’m definitely not someone who makes up their mind and never considers the chance I might be wrong.

All of that said, I thought Brexit was a dogshit idea when it was in the forming stage in Dave Cameron’s scrotum, and I think it’s a dogshit idea now. I think it’s highly unlikely I’m gonna have a change of opinion anytime soon that will make me think it’s a cracking jaunt….

C_J

mono-stereo you’re right, that’s a fair point. slightly different dynamic in play in the sense that Iraq was not on anyone’s border or keeping anyone’s lights on - but it’s a valid point nonetheless.

alistair

LT42 The schadenfreude is delicious.

C_J

vinnyt77 yeah mate to be honest as much as I moan about the eu I’d have preferred us to have never had the referendum either.

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