Israel Palestine

I don’t really know what is right in all of this.

War = civilian deaths, always. So yeah, ideally stop the war.

However, Israel claim to have neighbours who want to see them destroyed, and that isn’t without evidence (if we are to believe the news)

Therefore IMO just because Israel is ‘defending’ by being highly offensive and efficient, with high civilian casualties - does that make it wrong? What if we waited until Hamas/Hezbollah were ‘allowed time’ to do whatever else they had planned - how would we feel about Israel if they were on the back foot and defending themselves from a major ground incursion + missile combo within their borders?

i.e. would we feel more aligned with them if they were receiving more pain inside their borders?

Israel can’t seem to get away from how a lot of us see them now:

The amount of civilian deaths in Gaza (and now Lebanon) is disproportionately higher than what Israel had suffered a year ago. Do the casualties really need to be that high?

What if Hamas really are hiding among civilians instead of bases, and this is making it impossible to target threats and leaders without hitting civilians?

All of this is, of course, assuming we can believe the news - which could be skewing how we feel even further

Just to throw in a curveball, since we never admit it on the News narratives

I’m also keen to point out (and find out) that almost all of the previous wars in this region were about oil/gas reserves being under control such as Iraq and Syria (as much about us gaining power, as preventing Russia and others from gaining it and weakening the west) - its why we can afford to throw billions (maybe trillions) at such a venture - so is this war just about the gas/oil and other resources and not remotely about what we are being told?

Image below was show to me by someone high up in Finance who explained why the west were really in Syria and Iraq etc. All about stealing / getting the taxes from oil and strengthening the economies. I do wonder whats at stake around Israel/Gaza/Lebanon as this may not just be about the history/narrative we think (even if some of the narrative is true).

Image:
Gas resources discovered around Israel area

Is natural gas the real reason for the genocide in Gaza? [article]

NasserAlazzawi Israel claim to have neighbours who want to see them destroyed, and that isn’t without evidence (if we are to believe the news)

They wouldn’t want them destroyed if they didn’t act like massive cunts. If they were doing good in the region, regardless of religion, they would be welcomed.

NasserAlazzawi Therefore IMO just because Israel is ‘defending’ by being highly offensive and efficient, with high civilian casualties - does that make it wrong?

Yes, yes it does. They are one of the most well funded and technologically advanced war machines on the planet and they are bombing a concentration camp they created. In war, the onus is on the victor to make good. Israel will never be on the back foot in a war against their immediate neighbours, and as such it’s on them to make good.

It’s like you using a bazooka to kill a fly and then justifying it by saying you where worried that ‘the fly might have gotten the upper hand’ had you done nothing.

It’s genocide, racism, and a bit of business, all masquerading as war. You can’t have a ‘war’ if your opposition doesn’t have a standing army.

NasserAlazzawi they backed Iran in the iran-iraq war of the 80s when the mullahs were at fever pitch lmao.

NasserAlazzawi However, Israel claim to have neighbours who want to see them destroyed, and that isn’t without evidence (if we are to believe the news)

Not merely “if we are to believe the news”…

Hamas’ Covenant, its own charter it published first in 1988, literally calls for the destruction of Israel and the slaughter of Jews.

Here are some quotes from Hamas’ founding charter:

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it”

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad”

Delightful.

"https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/

NasserAlazzawi Is natural gas the real reason for the genocide in Gaza? [article]

Interesting article.

Overall though, a surprisingly vaguely coherent contribution from Nas.

hugopal The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

This is highly unlikely isn’t it really?

Not surprising they fucked up a basic raid, bringing all kinds of shit down on themselves, if this is the best they can come up with.

Four Lions scenez

Amps I do think there is some truth in your post but I’m not sure about the first bit:

Amps They wouldn’t want them destroyed if they didn’t act like massive cunts. If they were doing good in the region, regardless of religion, they would be welcomed.

I think that horse has bolted unfortunately. It’s a fight to the death now.

Amps Yes, yes it does. They are one of the most well funded and technologically advanced war machines on the planet and they are bombing a concentration camp they created.

I hear you. From what I’m reading though, Hamas may use the civilians as ‘shields’ or rather as people to blend in amongst - upping the casualties - whilst unfortunately for the civilians, aside from being at greater risk of harm or death, also have no choice but to be led by Hamas in the first place.

So if your enemy (stating they are going to attack again) is hiding within those camps what choice would you have knowing you have to stop them? (assuming they really were there). The intelligence side of the IDF seems to be far more advanced than many would have thought.

I’m not pro one or the other btw, and I don’t regard myself as someone who is really in a position to comment I’m more interested in exploring what this is all about without getting into inflammatory comments about sides.

Part of the trouble is history didn’t start on Oct 7th (yet for most watching the news it just about did) but if you go back far enough Israel wasn’t there and the west kicked out native Palestinisns and created a place for european Jews to settle afte ww2 - and that seems to be what Iran and the arab world are hanging onto when time has moved on (is a 9 million population isn’t really going to be wiped off the face of the earth?).

On another hand, Israel didn’t stop there and they kept occupying more land/ejecting home and land owners in smaller communities (I saw an interesting dressing down on this by an Irish MP)

It’s no doubt more complex but for me, the sooner we get away from oil and other such assets being a measure of power to fight over the better - but the above has interested me, especially about the oil and gas no one on the news is remotely helping everyone understand.

Civilians always pay on all sides - not just physically but psychologically long-term (whilst having the effect of recruiting more on both sides against their respective enemies). For me sitting here it can’t be that hard to learn how to cooperate but the minute someone kills my family member that would all change because I am personally and very emotionally involved, skewing away any ability to think rationally or reason my way out of conflict logically.

It’s a mess and we need to all learn other ways of resolving energy/food/land balances etc and probably find a new way to lead countries co-operatively if there was ever a way to break the cycle.

Amps is hugo the goy who lies down on the path in front of club toilets in berlin and has Urolagnia fetish to piss on people?

#makeufink.

Amps you could choose to stop angering them by encroaching on their land and treating them like prisoners in a concentration camp, you could agree to and act upon a road map to a two state solution, you could do all sorts to bring them back to the table and de-escalate the situation…

Very true. It’s no wonder they’re gunning for Israel.

I wonder how much there is we don’t know about why they kept encroaching like that.

hugopal Overall though, a surprisingly vaguely coherent contribution from Nas.

It was the coffee

NasserAlazzawi no joke, it’s true story, just ask anyone who has been to berlin. put me off ever going there again.