Starmer (UK is Jaded thread)

vinnyt77

alistair Only if ‘amazing’ means the same as ‘barely surprising.’

The Government’s own impact assessment of the bill is that will push 250,000 people into poverty, of which 50,000 are children. How does that qualify as modest? How many more new poor people would there need to be for you to consider the welfare cuts significant/substantial?

Millsy

vinnyt77 I think he means modest compared to what the Tories would do

alistair

Millsy it got that big under them spending money like drunken sailors.

alistair

Welfare spending is projected to rise to £303bn in 24/25 tax year. That accounts for 24% of GDP They are taking about a £5bn welfare cut by 2027. This is modest by any estimation and they are seemingly incapable of delivering it despite a massive majority.

vinnyt77

alistair I agree - it’s incredibly high, and only going to get higher as the demographics of the UK evolve.

I DISAGREE that a quarter of a million people being pushed into poverty can be considered modest though. I’ll ask the question again - how many more new poor people would there need to be for you to consider the welfare cuts significant/substantial?

-si-

vinnyt77

In most cases evolution suggests progress, not sure evolve is the word I’d use to describe what we are becoming as a population. And I’m not solely referring to brown people arriving on lilos, before hanners’ mangina alarm sounds it’s pronoun klaxon!

alistair

vinnyt77 It’s not my area of expertise and I reject the premise of the question. I do know that we are an outlier compared to the rest of Europe when it comes to % of its population not in work/paying tax. It cant all be explained by a surging mental health epidemic specific to the UK. It’s also a waste of human potential. Teach a man to fish and all that. Storing up massive future problems

vinnyt77

alistair

alistair I reject the premise of the question.

Of course you do 😆

The NEET rate in the UK is 11.6%. In the EU it’s 12.9% - so I’m not sure your point holds?

Look - I agree the welfare bill is too high, and I agree that there are doubtless some specious examples of feckless layaboutery going on. I find this welfare bill problematic because its relatively modest (your word) savings come at the expense of a not insignificant number of people being (IMO) unfairly victimised. For me, it’s another example of this Labour government starting out with a decent intention, but monstrously fucking it up in design and implementation.

-si- And I’m not solely referring to brown people arriving on lilos
Smallman1 Good to see Vinny and Si outing themselves are two of the boards biggest racists.

How very dare you. Brown / yellow / other colours - I don’t discriminate.

Smallman1

Good to see Vinny and Si outing themselves are two of the boards biggest racists.

Cap doffed!

-si-

Smallman1 Good to see Vinny and Si outing themselves are two of the boards biggest racists.

I can’t be, I have a non-WASP window cleaner, my next door neighbour once worked in Nigeria for 6 months and i can eat lamb rogan josh without retching.

alistair

vinnyt77 where I will agree with you is that they are very poor at politics. Targeting the in work disabled first like they did pensioners on modest incomes with the winter fuel allowance was/is stupid and misguided. The winter fuel allowance debacle has probably cost them their majority at the next election. They also need to incentivise employers to train/hire more disabled and elderly workers.

vinnyt77

alistair where I will agree with you is that they are very poor at politics.

Understatement Klaxon

alistair The winter fuel allowance debacle has probably cost them their majority at the next election.

I think there’s time yet. They’re a year into a 4-5 year term. If (IF) they manage to start things turning around in the next 12 months, then I think they’re in a decent position come 2028/2029. Need to stop cutting themselves off at the knee first, though. I can’t help but think an Alastair Campbell type figure is needed, just to put a stop to the worst of their incessant self-destructive tendencies.

Along_the_Wire

alistair The winter fuel allowance debacle has probably cost them their majority at the next election

The Tories are unelectable for at least the next couple of cycles - the fuck up from Labour needs to outweigh the current mess

alistair

vinnyt77 Starmer realises you can’t tax yourself to growth. They’re stuck in neutral. They’re even thinking about reversing non doms given the capital flight they are seeing. Now that would cause a stir amongst the factions. Blair would do it in a heartbeat

alistair

Along_the_Wire The Tories are fucked. It’s reform who is on course to be the largest party at the next election. Labour is paralysed by factionalism.

Along_the_Wire

alistair Reform won’t win the next election. There are too many blue rinsed Tories who won’t hold there nose for it

RichM

alistair I always thought Farage came across as someone who doesn’t actually want to be in power, just loves to be on the sideline stirring up shit as much as he can. I can’t imagine he could make actual decisions on how the country is run

alistair

Along_the_Wire watch the Tories led by Jenrick merge with Reform at the next election. You heard it here first folks. Kemi is brown bread. Can I say that? 😂

Along_the_Wire

alistair Capital flight? It’s a piss in the wind

Mad_Cyril

alistair Kemi is brown bread

Kemi Khazi

alistair

Mad_Cyril makes Duncan Smith look half decent

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