The General Covid19 Thread

bosstrabs

303abuser i really think the only thing that will work is regulating/taxing/fining the companies who profit from making people sick (mcdonalds, coke, factory farms, etc.), but we all know that will never happen.

I am aware that I may now be seen as the ‘fun police’ on here with my attitudes to non-maskers, excess alcohol consumption etc, but I have advocated this for years. Absolutely rinse the fuck out of Betfred and fried chicken shops for people’s own good. Not saying ban them completely - everyone is entitled to gamble or eat shit food from time to time. Just make it prohibitively expensive so that people will make better daily choices.

bosstrabs

When you have a massive sugar tax and such, sooner or later people will make better choices. Not in favour of banning stuff, just interfering in the ‘free’ market to skew people’s behaviour. Softer ‘nudge unit’-dreamt up measures like printing health labels on junk food just don’t work effectively enough.

303abuser

bosstrabs printing health labels

i don’t understand how it’s legal anywhere to sell food without a complete list of ingredients. while it’s not enough to solve the problem, i think it’s a necessary step to help people make informed decisions.

jonattonyeah

I consider myself lucky to live in an area with good, healthy cheap food and a climate that lends itself to exercise. I try not to be too judgmental of those in other locales where the weather is appalling and their food options are limited to fried this and sugar that. It’s no wonder they’re all so fat. Also believe food and health should be something taught in school. What good is calculus if you can’t waddle out of the house.

bosstrabs

jonattonyeah I consider myself lucky to live in an area with good, healthy cheap food and a climate that lends itself to exercise. I try not to be too judgmental of those in other locales where the weather is appalling and their food options are limited to fried this and sugar that. It’s no wonder they’re all so fat. Also believe food and health should be something taught in school. What good is calculus if you can’t waddle out of the house.

I just think people are so fucking socially liberal nowadays, everyone refuses to accept the fact that a mildly (not invasively) patrician government that just says “This is bad for people who are too stupid to know otherwise, so we are going to remove some decisions from people (or at least tax the shit out of them)”. But no, all we get is moral relativism: “Hey guys, we really think you shouldn’t do that, but hey - no-one’s judging! Okay, you carry on then, your choices are as valid as any!”

303abuser

jonattonyeah I try not to be too judgmental of those in other locales where the weather is appalling

no, be judgemental. the hill i run a couple of times a week is deserted when it’s -20, and packed when it’s above +10. the weather isn’t prohibitive (although it’s not always fun), people are just incredibly lazy. i’m not special, if i can do it, everyone can.

bosstrabs

Some of the stuff you talk about - lucky? No, intervene to skew things so that most places are like that. Tax the hell out of betting shops and shit food establishments and use the money to provide well-policed parks and, fuck it, even subsidise healthy living.

jonattonyeah

bosstrabs

Agreed. But I’m in America. If libraries were a modern idea they’d be decried as socialism. This place is hopeless in that respect.

303abuser

bosstrabs the responsibility of the cost/tax needs to be placed more on corporations than on people though (i’m aware the cost will trickle down, and no i don’t have a solution for that lol).

bosstrabs

Really, the modern US and UK are just the shittest bits of the market economy - crony capitalism, ruthless exploitation of gullible consumers, allowing people the ‘freedom’ to make utterly shit choices that are detrimental to their health (because McDonald’s will always have more advertising firepower than the vegan salad shop on the corner) - fused with the shittest bits of social liberalism, which decries any piece of good advice ‘toxic’ (for hurting someone’s feelings), judgmental and even a product of the white patriarchy too (don’t ram YOUR values down our throats!).

bosstrabs

303abuser It helps middle class people to make decisions.

Most people just ignore them. Tax the fuck out of that 500g bag of biscuits/‘cookies’ instead.

303abuser

bosstrabs you’re not wrong about that. at least it helps those who want to try to make good decisions.

jonattonyeah

303abuser no, be judgemental

Yeah, fair. I’ve just been to a few places, like New Orleans, where the humidity is just bonkers. I love being out and about…that kind of heat is something else. I can’t imagine doing anything outdoors down that way. And the food choices are so unhealthy.

bosstrabs

303abuser the responsibility of the cost/tax needs to be placed more on corporations than on people though (i’m aware the cost will trickle down, and no i don’t have a solution for that lol).

The cost trickling down is fine, because that discourages consumption. That’s the whole point.

The worry is when the shit food purveyors absorb the tax increase and don’t raise the price. Then the tax isn’t swingeing enough.

Millsy

Agree Dave. Although I am always perplexed by the base physiology of it all. In effect, the body through years of evolution, should surely realise it is detrimental to consume sugars in the quantities it does, yet the reward hormonal reward response still exists. Equally the pain barrier of exercise is too much for some, rendering them unable to improve their cardio vascular health. I suppose it’s basic natural selection writ large on a societal level.

303abuser

Millsy i think it’s also that the methods of food production (eg. peak sugar) have outpaced human evolution. we’re still biologically programmed to take in easy calories and corporations have knowingly exploited this for decades, while spending ridiculous amounts of money to pin the problem on fat instead of sugar.

bosstrabs

It’s worth reading some Economics journals and such on rational decision making, too.

This is a great introduction to it…

Basically, we’re starting to realise that the human brain doesn’t cope at all well with much more than binary choices. This insight isn’t used for people’s good, though, it is exploited to swing people in favour of hugely shit (but profitable) personal choices.

303abuser

jonattonyeah meh. the last time we were in mexico, i ran sprints in the sand every morning before it got too hot to live. it just takes the will and a bit of planning. people are much too comfortable being lazy when it comes to their health.

bosstrabs

jonattonyeah I’ve just been to a few places, like New Orleans, where the humidity is just bonkers. I love being out and about…that kind of heat is something else. I can’t imagine doing anything outdoors down that way. And the food choices are so unhealthy.

Yet I’ve lived in Shanghai, which is similar climate and humidity. People go outdoors and sweat it out. There’s lots of money there, yet people manage to conduct their lives in a way that doesn’t turn them into fat bastards.

Today: humidity in Shanghai 90%, New Orleans 62%.

303abuser

on top of that, we also don’t do well with long term consequences as a method for behavioural change. the immediate pleasure from sugar is much more rewarding for most people than the long term negative health consequences are punishing.

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