9/11 National Tragedy ?

Old-Dutch

LT42 a small hole for a large passenger jet

Not to mention how precise the pilot would need to be to hit a building so low to the ground head on flying a passenger plane after some flying lessons? Professional pilots need huge length runways to land on.

Can’t see many amateur pilots being able to do that. Surely 99.99999% would either crash the plane on the ground somewhere in front of the building or fly straight over and crash behind. But this guy hits it dead on? Ok.

LT42

Old-Dutch funny you should say that. Myself and a couple of mates got stoned as gargoyles during the Summer and tried to fly a 737 into the Freedom Tower on MSFS 2020 for a morbid laugh. We used the exact coordinates as UA175 released by the FAA, same descent profile etc and flying at top speed at the altitude. None of us could do it, the plane is too unstable when that low and at that speed. A guy with Cessna flying lessons managed to do it in a real 767 and did it on his first go, then his buddy with the same training did it on his first go a few minutes later on a perfect glide slope, all of this done with no autopilot and no VOR waypoints. Real world pilots know how this is next to impossible. I know its just a simulator but it should be easier to pull it off than in real life, right? The turbulence alone when flying that fast and that low, plus moving just a few hundred feet above the rooftops throws the plane across your horizontal plain, its extremely difficult to control. If you watch the real footage on the day, the plane makes very little movement, just a quick bank to the left (raising the right wing tip) moments before impact. It doesn’t make sense that a complete novice pulled that off, one after the other.

Dan

LT42 Car bomb wasn’t it? But the Yanks were too embarrassed to admit it breached their security.

Old-Dutch

Perhaps they had a slight advantage over you and your mates by not being “stoned as gargoyles”, lol

Did anyone try shouting “Allah Akbar!” to see if that worked?

LT42

Old-Dutch lol

Just to give you an idea of the physics involved, the plane didn’t even make it to lower Manhattan a couple of times, the g-forces flying that low at top speed broke the plane apart and we crashed miles away. Coming from the South side was more stable over the water but it was so hard to judge the descent and speed, if you got within 200 feet you were doing well. I simply refuse to believe these silly religious bastards with zero Boeing training did it. Not a fucking chance. Maybe someone else did or they were remotely piloted. I don’t know if that’s possible but I can’t fathom any other reason. The odds for 1 doing it are extremely long nevermind 2 of them one after the other, on their 1st attempts. You have to remember, they did it with no waypoints, that’s how autopilot works, the points are programmable. So they would’ve had to navigate with the naked eye to Battery Park from hundreds of miles away and hit both towers square on at full speed. Which would mean any fucker could do it essentially. It doesn’t make sense.

Old-Dutch

Yeah and hitting the towers would surely be a lot easier than the Pentagon considering how much more of a vertical axis you have to aim at.

LT42

Old-Dutch yep, and the altitude even lower, which would make it even more unlikely at those speeds. To fly at top speed isn’t possible because the air is thicker at lower altitudes. Pilots know this. I watched some of them talking about the path that plane took and they said it wasn’t possible to make the turn it did, the plane simply can’t take those forces, its not designed for those manouvres. Again, a non trained novice did it on his 1st on top of making the plane perform outside it’s flight parameters. Some of the “theories” out there are genuinely batshit but you can’t dispute aviation physics. Especially if you know nothing about them.

Mad_Cyril

Hursty The side of the Pentagon that was hit was undergoing refurbishment at the time so had nothing sensitive in it?

So the pentagon bit was just an insurance scam because it needed decorating?

Hursty

Mad_Cyril It was definitely mentioned at some point, anyone else hear that story? As I said, probably bullshit

jonattonyeah

Occam’s Razor.

Planes hit all three buildings and Flight 93 was not shot out of the air.

A cover-up of this magnitude would simply be impossible. While this place is fucked up, it’s not Russia (yet). Some whistleblower would’ve come forward by now. Are there so unanswered questions? Sure. Because nothing like that had ever happened before. Conspiracy theorists to me are often people who don’t seem capable of understanding that the world isn’t always perfectly understandable. The leaps of faith, the “well but….”, are far more unreasonable than common statements about the day. Planes going really fast and packed with gas hit buildings, buildings go boom. The End.

LT42

jonattonyeah Planes going really fast and packed with gas hit buildings

…not piloted by Jihadis with less than 20 hours flying time in single engine propeller aircraft. Its not as simple as you say. Before writing people off as conspiracy theorists you have to factor in the obvious fictions. You can’t just bin the physics, they’re as important as the boom.

Old-Dutch

I’m convinced no plane hit the Pentagon. 100%. Have been from day 1

jonattonyeah

Old-Dutch

So they just made that up for what reason now? I mean, the entire thing was a gigantic security failure the likes of which the world has never seen. I don’t think there’s any way to save face so why even bother concocting some story. Doesn’t pass the sniff test for me.

jonattonyeah

LT42

Not writing you off, LT. I was speaking more generally. Have a friend….well actually not really anymore. Anywho, he’s a total conspiracy nut about absolutely everything. Doesn’t want to believe the world is chaotic and fucked up and sometimes there are not answers. There just must be some sort of answer or some cabal behind the scenes! I was speaking more to that crowd.

Anyway, back to 9-11. Sorry but this is likely the most studied event in human history. Up there with the Holocaust. It’s been 20 years. The conventional wisdom works for me. Doesn’t help that the nutters cast doubt on absolutely fucking everything. Oh so the planes were a mirage now! Got it! It all makes sense. What was I ever thinking. As if the burden of proof is somehow on us; those who believe the standard accounts. Again, Occam’s Razor. “Doesn’t seem likely” isn’t good enough for me. Most studied event in human history. Nobody has come forward, with any sort of actual official knowledge, to dispute it

Also, I doubt it’s so hard to fly a plane when you have no intention of landing it.

Old-Dutch

jonattonyeah

How is it possible that there is literally zero footage of it? Air traffic control would have known exactly where the plane was heading and it’s altitude etc. Bear in mind it supposedly hit the Pentagon around 45 minutes after the first plane went into the WTC.

I don’t get how there is no footage of it happening

LT42

There’s never been an official whistleblower for the Gulf of Tonkin either. I don’t expect there ever would be for something on this scale either. You get whistelblowers in the corporate world with the odd exception, has there ever been a genuine whistleblower from the intelligence community? Genuine question, I don’t know the answer.

Edit: Snowden is an obvious answer but I mean related to operations where people have died.

zackster

LT42

jonattonyeah Nobody has come forward, with any sort of actual official knowledge, to dispute it

Also, I doubt it’s so hard to fly a plane when you have no intention of landing it

Haven’t over a hundred engineers and metalurgy experts done studies and presented it to families of 9/11 truth stuff, or whatever they’re called? Im sure they have.

To answer the second part, it’s not hard to fly a jet plane, you’re right. You push the yoke and it moves. The hard part is taking it from hundreds of miles away at top speed, plotting a course with no knowledge of using an MCDU, descending with no VNAV and hitting a bullseye in your first go, 3 times. Trust me, J, it would be like giving a guitar to a drunk in the crowd and them playing the solo from Comfortably Numb perfectly, on their 1st go. What percentage of impossibilty we want to put on that is probably up for debate.

jonattonyeah

Old-Dutch

Everything about the Pentagon is a closely guarded secret. Doesn’t mean that there was some shenanigans going on. As for Air Traffic Control, I would guess they were in a state of abject chaos trying to figure out what was happening and trying ground every plane in the air without runway capacity.

What on earth happened to the 50 whatever people who died if it didn’t hit the ole ’gon? Are they in a bunker somewhere? Guantanamo maybe?

Amps

The ‘no planes’ theory on the twin towers is some of my fave melter chat. Up there with ‘birds arent real’.

LT42

Amps thats the kind of stuff that fucks it up for people that have genuine, reality based questions. The “birds arent real” video needs to be resurfaced 🤣

jonattonyeah

LT42

And plenty of experts have said the complete opposite. Problem is, YouTube gives equal voice to reason as it does balderdash so the waters get muddied. People are also opportunists. Oh I can make a buck off spouting some half-baked theory using my education as a reason to listen? Done. Which is also why I think somebody, somewhere, with evidence of malfeasance would’ve come forward by now. They’d make millions and would go down in history.

As for the second part….well they did it, didn’t they? They smashed those planes into the buildings. They were certainly Comfortably Numb by the end of it.

Old-Dutch

jonattonyeah Everything about the Pentagon is a closely guarded secret.

Wouldn’t stop people having their own footage of it. Look how much amateur footage there is on the World Trade Centre crashes

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