Ukraine war (WW3)

zackster

LT42

alistair the people of the DPR voted unanimously to break away from Ukraine, years ago. Do they have rights?

bosstrabs

LT42 the people of the DPR voted unanimously to break away from Ukraine, years ago. Do they have rights?

99.8% of Falkland Islanders vote in favour of remaining an overseas territory of the UK. Do you agree that the Falkland Islands should remain part of the UK?

I’m just curious because I do believe in democratic self-determination but the two people who advanced what you said (above) that I was discussing this with then did not agree that the Falklanders have the same right.

alistair

LT42 The UN Security Council, which includes Russia, reaffirmed its full respect for the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine. Donetsk and Luhansk are part of Ukraine.

Homegrove

LT42

bosstrabs I know nothing about the Falklands, Dave, and have no idea why someobody would believe that the people of the DPR deserve the right to choose but not those of the Falklands. You either believe in self-determination or you don’t. For what it’s worth, if the people of the Falklands voted in this manner then they should have the right to decide. Ironically, did the UK go to the Falklands in the same manner as Putin going into the DPR last night? Again, I don’t know enough about that conflict to have a serious chat about it and I’ll most likely make an arse of myself.
My point in asking Alistair about his haphazard post was just that - why does one side have a right while a whole population of people from another side do not? Talking heads on Sky News come out with that type of bollox.

bosstrabs

LT42 I know nothing about the Falklands, Dave, and have no idea why someobody would believe that the people of the DPR deserve the right to choose but not those of the Falklands. You either believe in self-determination or you don’t.

Well, that’s what I generally believe, but one I was discussing with was a Spaniard, who then started backpedalling when I mentioned the Falklands, probably knowing it would undermine his Gibraltar position (which was where I was going next). The other was a seemingly left-wing (or at least, anti-US imperialism) Brit.

vinnyt77

bosstrabs Most Spaniards I’ve met are massively against self-determination, because it could see the cash-cow of Catalunya secede from Spain…

LT42 Ironically, did the UK go to the Falklands in the same manner as Putin going into the DPR last night?

No. The UK task force was in response to Argentina invading the Falklands, not in response to anything done by the Falkland Islanders themselves. The disputed sovereignty of the islands notwithstanding, the islanders themselves have consistently expressed a preference to remain an overseas UK territory.

Funky

There’s no war msm playing games again, acting like Russia is important, country on its knees before you add sanctions. Stock market already recovered ha.

alistair

Funky it is the world’s biggest gas supplier so yes, it’s important.

mono-stereo

Funky There’s no war msm playing games again, acting like Russia is important

Russia is a nuclear power that could destroy the world 50 times over.

Funky Stock market already recovered ha.

The S&P 500 index dropped into a correction today.

bosstrabs

vinnyt77 Most Spaniards I’ve met are massively against self-determination, because it could see the cash-cow of Catalunya secede from Spain…

Yes, which was why his position, which was basically ‘Europe should stay out of it, these people want to be Russian anyway’ crumbled under a bit of probing. The Spaniards sometimes seem able to reconcile these internal contradictions though by insisting Catalans and Basques are not essentially distinct from Spanish.

Anyway, I don’t have a firm position on these issues either. I’m generally in favour of self-determination but it isn’t always a good thing because it can lead to Balkanisation and a persecuted minority (e.g. Serbs in Kosovo).

LT42

vinnyt77 No. The UK task force was in response to Argentina invading the Falklands, not in response to anything done by the Falkland Islanders themselves. The disputed sovereignty of the islands notwithstanding, the islanders themselves have consistently expressed a preference to remain an overseas UK territory.

I see what you’re saying but if the Ukrainians have been bombing and shelling the DPR for 8 years then it’s in the ballpark without splitting hairs. It’s a territory under attack from a hostile force, backed up by a bigger brother so to speak. Ukrainian forces have been inside the territory too committing assassinations and sabotaging supply lines (gas, electric etc) as well as damaging and blocking canals that feed into Crimea. I suppose it depends on what you would define as an invasion. If its the rolling into town on the back of tanks and occupying Govt buildings, then that’s just for the cameras really, an invasion can be brought in many ways. The only reason the Ukrainians haven’t used that measure is because of who’s behind the wall.

Funky

alistair Russia has an economy the size of Texas, time western europe moved away from reliance on them for energy anyway.

LT42

alistair Lol, I love how you wrote this sincerely as well. Without the faintest whiff of double standards.

Russia and other countries reaffirmed their full respect for the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Donesk and Luhansk. They are no longer part of the Ukraine.

UN Security Council. 😅

bosstrabs

Funky Qatar supplies more LNG to Europe than Russia does, and the US close to Russia’s provision.

Dubman

Funky

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-germany-halts-approval-of-nord-stream-2-gas-pipeline-from-russia-12548612

alistair

Funky that might be so but energy prices are already sky high in UK households and are likely to go through the roof post invasion

Hursty

Dubman Nothing about Nord stream 1 where pretty much all of their gas comes from 😂

No way Germany will get properly tough on Russia as their economy relies on their cheap gas. Putin knows this. They can’t just switch switch to Qatar LPG overnight.

The west has to tread carefully though, if we sanction him Russia too hard, they will just invade as there is nothing to lose. Careful leverage and diplomacy required, not to worry as we have Boris

alistair

LT42 separatist movements Putin sponsors

Funky

alistair Can’t see it going to 150 dollars a barrel like 2008, foreign conflicts don’t have as much of an effect on markets as you think its all temporary and blows over fast going by history. MSM are just trying to remain relevant its laughable, fuck all is happening even on private satellites no proof of an invasion.

vinnyt77

LT42

Crossed wires dude. I thought you were referring to Putin’s comments about Ukraine never having had the sovereignty to be its own nation, not the disputed territories.

I don’t know enough about the specifics of the DPR and Luhansk to judge what the level of self-determination in those places is…

NasserAlazzawi

I am far too calm for what is happening today like.

alistair

NasserAlazzawi time for some ethnic house Nas.

NasserAlazzawi

alistair Cossack House™

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