Sunak (General U.K. is Jaded thread)

Al_Boy

I’m just asking if he thinks she would even have the capacity, under her former (and possibly current) ideology, to show mercy!

Show mercy to those that deserve it! (There are plenty out there in the world that do).

For the reasons I have stated in the thread already - I [underline], don’t think that she does.

mono-stereo

Al_Boy probably not, but that’s one thing that differentiates our society from the barbarism of ISIS

Al_Boy

mono-stereo

At the potential cost of more lives and more people hurt??? Isn’t “live by the sword, die by the sword ‘ a central tenet of theirs?

Al_Boy

No, I’m sorry Mono…. Life is cheap, we all know that. (It shouldn’t be, it’s WAY undervalued, but it is)!

There are plenty out there more deserving of help than she is! We can”t help everybody, let’s find others more deserving.

We should not be seen as a soft touch!

mono-stereo

I think she was old enough to make her own decisions and I don’t believe the claim that she was groomed fully absolves her. That said, I do think her defence should be tested in a UK court of law.

Al_Boy

mono-stereo

Hmmmm…..

At a (doubtless huge) cost to the taxpayer?

whatever

mono-stereo

I’m sceptical about the extent to which grooming contributed to what she did. It doesn’t seem like an adequate explanation, notwithstanding her very young age. The ISIS propaganda was no doubt appealing, but it wouldn’t have been enough to have driven someone to take such extreme actions in such a short period of time. I think it was more likely to have been the cumulative effect of the slow drip of an ideology that predated ISIS by many years. ISIS took Mosul in 2014 (I think) and she was among the first wave of people to go after they declared a caliphate. ISIS was good (at propaganda) but not that good. Apart from the fact that she has become a political hot potato, I suspect part of what is not being said in the media is that the intelligence services possess information on the family background that points to connections to groups that presents more of a security risk as well as the impact of a cause celebre returning that galvanises others into action.

Completely agree on affording her the justice of a UK court.

mono-stereo

Yup.

Al_Boy

mono-stereo

Well, what I will say, is that I personally would resent the cost’s incurred in triing her…

That money could be better spent elsewhere.. (IMO)….

She made her bed. (IMO)…

Mad_Cyril

Al_Boy pop
I don’t think I’d have gone Al.

The ISIS / Taliban crew don’t strike me as gentle lovers

Al_Boy

Mad_Cyril

No, not willingly sure, I get that, but what if you were in the armed forces and had been ordered to go, or if you had been (say) kidnapped (alright, a long shot, but you know What I’m getting at, (for whatever reason, You were there)).

Do you think she would show you mercy???

And that’s another thing! Ideologically and theologically, she would appear to be much more compatible with the other party you mentioned.

Why doesn’t she apply for citizenship THERE! It sounds like it might be much more her bag???

Nah, it’s all a put up job…. ‘Look at Me! I’m homeless, stateless, and I’ve lost my kids - have mercy I beg you!…. I’m sorry!…. English, born and raised’…

…. Not worth it!…. ( Sorry, should have thought of THAT before you left, [and again before you joined ideological police enforcement])…

Al_Boy

And that’s another thing! Ideologically and theologically, she would appear to be much more compatible with the other party you mentioned.

Why doesn’t she apply for citizenship THERE! It sounds like it might be much more her bag???

mono-stereo

Al_Boy Are you happy with politicians making a call on if someone deserves a trial or not? That’s what this thing boils down to imo.

Al_Boy

No Mono. I am not. In an ideal scenario there should always be separation of the legislature and the executive.

BUT, I am unhappy about many things in the world, and I am less unhappy about THIS, than I am about THEM.

I do think an example needs to be made.

This one time, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it….

(But then again, you COULD make the argument that “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance’. [Commonly attributed to Thomas Jefferson]).

Aside from the legal argument tho’. I do think it’s not just about your legal rites as a citizen, it’s about your responsibilities as well. And I might suggest that that sort of behaviour is not compatible with THEM.

(Who knows? It MIGHT even give witless others pause for thought? In which case, this will not have been in vain).

Al_Boy

whatever

But why???

For the same reason as Mono????

I mean, she’s not a uk citizen at the current time. And what do you think should happen IF she wins???? You cannot seriously be thinking of compensation?? :-/

F.*.CK THAT!

Al_Boy

whatever Completely agree on affording her the justice of a UK court.

…. (But Why)??

For the same reason as Mono????

I mean, she’s not a uk citizen at the current time.. according to the state…. And what do you think should happen IF she wins???? You cannot seriously be thinking of compensation?? :-/

F.*.CK THAT!

whatever

Al_Boy

Why, on which point?

Al_Boy

whatever

The last sentence.

whatever

Al_Boy

I’m not completely sure what you are saying. She will still be entitled to lodge appeals against the decision that stripped her of her citizenship. Her defence team will scouring the SIAC judgement released this week for any grounds of appeal, which they can advance, so irrespective, she won’t barred access to the judicial system. We may or may not disagree with the decision of the courts, but denying access to that system leads you down a dark path.

I don’t have a view on what the remedies might be, were she to be successful in her appeal. I’m only saying she should be afforded the right to justice, which is the standard everybody should be held to. I was mainly suggesting that there might be more to the reasoning beyond an argument that she was groomed.

Al_Boy

whatever

‘She won’t barred access to the judicial system’

Sounds to me like a good deal from her perspective… (Better than she deserves IMO)!

But: it’s my bet that the state will be found well within its rights to make her ‘Persona non grata’. There should be no right of appeal. And she (IMO), should NOT be allowed back into this country under any circumstances.

(And I think she & her people are playing the system like a f::::::g harp)!

whatever

Al_Boy

That’s the thing though, it’s not good from her perspective, it’s good from — our — perspective if we all have the right to a fair trial.

The point is made in the Politics Joe vid above that the erosion of our institutions puts us on the path to authoritarianism. These things don’t happen overnight, they happen slowly and gradually as people freely and unknowingly give up their rights.

Straight after the High Court found Johnson’s proroguing of parliament unlawful, the Tories initiated an attack on the court system, media and civil service because they did not like being held to account, and sought to marginalise a system that could make decisions they disagreed with.

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