Sunak (General U.K. is Jaded thread)

Cankles-McJeggings

Half mast strides, mum tied laces , shit trabs and Primark coat AM.

C_J

benson so you think the descendants of survivors who feel offended by this reference are wrong and that Lineker is well within his rights to draw this comparison?

Fair enough mate. I definitely don’t.

Cankles-McJeggings

Fuck the BBC and fuck the Tories. Absolute filth all of them. Strength in numbers union stylee. Solidarity ✊

LT42

I think anyone who sees criticising language used in the 30s as an automatic reference to the holocaust is a bit thick if I’m honest. You’d like to imagine families affected by that could reasonably distinguish between the two and understand the connotations. If not, that’s their problem, especially when there is zero reference by Lineker to anything the Nazis went on to do 10 years later.

Mad_Cyril

LT42 You’d like to imagine families affected by that could reasonably distinguish between the two

They probably can, it’s likely that those being offended on their behalf (thickets) that can’t.

hugopal

LT42 I think anyone who sees criticising language used in the 30s as an automatic reference to the holocaust is a bit thick if I’m honest. You’d like to imagine families affected by that could reasonably distinguish between the two and understand the connotations. If not, that’s their problem, especially when there is zero reference by Lineker to anything the Nazis went on to do 10 years later.

So you’re calling @benson “a bit thick” then? Given that a few posts above yours he states that such language is “how it starts”.

Pray tell, what other, more innocent connotations to 1930s Germany could Lineker have been insinuating and making allusions to if not for that?

hugopal

benson Erm, he was comparing the language of the 30s, not the 40s. You know, pointing out how it starts, not saying that we are at the end of that process.

Except I don’t see how Lineker or yourself could explain how people illegally travelling to the UK from non-war-torn Albania has anything to do with 1930s Germany. The UK has legal routes for asylum claimants and has taken over 100,000 people from Ukraine over the last year for instance.

Even Yvette Cooper, Labour’s Shadow Home Secretary, has stated that she disagrees with Lineker’s tweet because “I just don’t think you should make comparisons with the 1930s”:

C_J

hugopal Even Yvette Cooper, Labour’s Shadow Home Secretary, has stated that she disagrees with Lineker’s tweet because “I just don’t think you should make comparisons with the 1930s

I think wherever you stand on this issue, it’s objectively wrong to make comparisons with the 1930s. You just can’t defend that as an intelligent thinking person.

Cooper deserves credit for being grown up about it rather than trying to score cheap points.

whatever

Would the BBC have acted the same if Lineker had said that he supported the government’s immigration policy and it is a great idea?

Cankles-McJeggings

whatever Would the BBC have acted the same if Lineker had said that he supported the government’s immigration policy and it is a great idea?

Absolutely not.

C_J

whatever that’s a good question although totally hypothetical and therefore pointless.

a better question would be: “Would the BBC have acted the same if Lineker had said that he supported the government’s immigration policy and it is a good idea but doesn’t actually go far enough and, were he home secretary, the small boats would be consistently met with small arms fire?”

In which case the answer would be “yes”.

C_J

It’s a reference to the language and tone of the policies of the specific regime who committed the holocaust.

He didn’t say “it’s typical of the sort of language used by many racist or autocratic regimes throughout history” - he has specifically chosen to reference this regime because of the cultural resonance it carries, particularly in the popular British imagination, because of what it went on to do.

He didn’t say “it’s like the language used by the Nazis, although please note i obviously mean the language used by the early 1930s Nazis prior to starting construction of Dachau in March 1933 after which they because a totally distinct and separate brand of Nazi with a new vernacular NOT at all like the policies of the current Conservative Government”

And we don’t get to decide what descendants of victims of the holocaust should and should not find offensive, i’m afraid mate.

whatever

C_J

The BBC’s stated position is that they intend to review the extent to which the Tweet was in breach of the terms of his contract. That is why I mentioned the counterfactual scenario, because following the logic of the BBC’s statement, it *shouldn’t change their position, irrespective of whether he went a step further along the lines of what you said. Demonstrating partisan support for a contentious Government policy ought to have been sufficient on its own merit to be considered a material breach of the terms of his contract, if any such terms exist.

LT42

hugopal Pray tell, what other, more innocent connotations to 1930s Germany could Lineker have been insinuating and making allusions to if not for that?

Maybe its that a Fascist Govt used inflammatory language to villify swaths of people in order to secure power for themselves. I dunno, thats just a kerrrazy wild guess, Hugo. “Pray tell” lol.

LT42

Benson obviously understands the context and differences. You obviously don’t. Ipso facto, you’re a bit thick.

hugopal

LT42 Benson obviously understands the context and differences.

Based on what? Benson’s comment actually states that he’s conflating the two - rather than stating the differences - otherwise he would not have been said it’s “how it starts”.

What else is the “it” benson is referring to then, huh?!

What else is Lineker is insinuating by 1930s Germany?

C_J

The problem really is that this is a technical, practical problem which requires intellectual and scientific enquiry, similar to say the ethical challenge of AI or the practical application of superconductivity, but Lineker has effectively democratised the discussion such that it is now on the level of the average man on the street/ conspiracy theorist/ virtue signalling TikTok moron.

LT42

Nobody here believes the Facist Tory Govt are going to start a holocaust, as I’m 100% positive Lineker doesn’t either. Those who bring up the Holocaust are doing so disingenuously to make a shit point.

C_J

LT42 Nobody here believes the Facist Tory Govt are going to start a holocaust, as I’m 100% positive Lineker doesn’t either. Those who bring up the Holocaust are doing so disingenuously to make a shit point.

hahaha. wow. 😆

Cankles-McJeggings

Didn’t stop Farage appealing or taking the discussion to the average thick moron on the street. He mobilised countless knuckle dragging thickets.

hugopal

LT42 Maybe its that a Fascist Govt used inflammatory language to villify swaths of people in order to secure power for themselves. I dunno, thats just a kerrrazy wild guess, Hugo. “Pray tell” lol.

Why the 1930s Germany government specifically then?
Why not 1920s Italy?!
Or even more precisely - why not just state that it’s the language of a fascist government, rather than that particular one at that particular time, if that was the point he was trying to make?

It’s obvious what the insinuation is with choosing that reference specifically. Again, it’s so obvious that even your pal benson above got what it’s insinuating.

And as for using “inflammatory language to villify swaths of people in order to secure power for themselves” that sounds like what Lineker is doing in making a clearly inflammatory, over the top comparison in order to vilify anyone who thinks that governments need to have a policy on tackling illegal immigration.

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