VR46 shift in policy how

Is that a serious quesiton? Do we need to juxtapose the Cold War and 80 years of post-ww2 policy against things like signing an aluminum deal with Russia off the back of adding tariffs to Canadian aluminum? They’re breaking from decades of internationalism toward isolationist policy.

Two days ago you were firmly against bullying but now you’re somehow in favour Trump and Vance doing exactly that on an international stage. They won’t commit to any security guarantees while telling Zelenskyy to be grateful, making light of his clothes, joking about “good tv”, analogies to card games, and acting like children. How are you ok with this?

  • VR46 replied to this.

      • VVR46

        • Post #158
        • Edited

        303abuser where did I say I was in favour of what happened yesterday? I’m against death and destruction but you can’t seem to get that through your head, I want peace simple as that and zelensky can return to white house when he is ready for peace that was made clear. It’s a tricky complicated situation beyond us so give over for a bit have a go at someone else.

            VR46 You indicated that Zelenskyy was also to blame for that obviously contrived interaction. You can’t want peace and support Putin at the same time.

            • VR46 replied to this.

                VR46

                Not everything trump will do will be negative

                What are the top 5 most positive things he has done in both the current and previous term in office?

                UK has an opportunity to make a deal and finally make use of brexit

                What are the specific opportunities?

                  • VVR46

                    • Post #162
                    • Edited

                    303abuser You are becoming tedious now, so fight on and on then that’s obviously what you want and fingers crossed Ukraine win, because you don’t want anyone talking to Putin, no way peace happens if he isn’t involved, continue to act tarded on that but that’s fact on every peace deal ever established. The aggressor or terrorists where always involved in the talks.

                    That’s doesn’t make me a putin supporter stating the bloody obvious. You over complicate everything how do you ever get shit done.

                        VR46 How do you negotiate without a security guarantee? Because that’s what trump is doing and you’re in favour of it. There’s nothing tedious about it, you just don’t understand the problem. Neither Trump or Putin can be trusted to hold to any written agreement.

                        • VR46 replied to this.

                            • VVR46

                              • Post #164
                              • Edited

                              303abuser I don’t support a deal without security guarenteed that should be blatantly obvious ffs, we had army here for 4 years once we got the ceasefire until peace.

                              I shouldn’t of needed to make that crystal clear, jaded clubbers are just speculating, that security wouldn’t of been guarenteed or that trump couldn’t stick to the deal. There is a chance Ukraine lose this war to even if we keeping funding, there is a risk no matter what happens. Need figure out the best way forward.

                              I dont know what else you want to hear.

                                  VR46 Then why are you supporting Trump’s version of diplomacy, when he’s very specifically avoided providing security guarantees?

                                      303abuser we’ve had an actual representive of our current right wing government say it’s better to do something even if it’s wrong than to do nothing. So far the unemployment has skyrocketed, as has people on welfare. And we also have homeless people now, which has never really been an issue here.

                                      Giving in to Putin is a similar solution. Sure you’ll have peace, but a lot of people are worse of it, and it won’t last.

                                          • VVR46

                                            • Post #167

                                            303abuser He didn’t totally avoid it speculation again, no way was zelensky going to sign it without security guarentees, and as much as trump is meant to be dumb I don’t think he is that dumb, meeting didn’t go far enough to get anywhere really.

                                            3 years off nothing also by previous government, so I was open minded to see if it can be ended with some sort of agreement that suits everyone and it still could be I hope, another 4 years of this is not good imo.

                                            That’s where I’m at take it or leave it, I’m done here.

                                                VR46 where did I say I was in favour of what happened yesterday?

                                                you did say that Zelensky was partly to blame at the same time.

                                                • VR46 replied to this.

                                                    • VVR46

                                                      • Post #170
                                                      • Edited

                                                      Along_the_Wire I said wasn’t without some blame either for how it all went, he said United States would feel it, watever that meant and that Ukraine where on their own they certainly haven’t been. His choice of words could have been better at times I hope you watched the full meeting.

                                                        • C_J

                                                          • Post #171

                                                          But Zelenski is partly to blame. His job was to go in there and kiss ass, give Trump what he wanted and then go from there. His job was not to have it out with Trump there and then in front of the press pack in the guys front room, of course that was going to go down badly. Starmer got the memo. Macron got the memo. Now Zelensky’s gone and fucked it.

                                                            VR46 Dude, don’t quit now, we’re finally getting somewhere. I’m honestly trying to understand your position. So you’re basically in the camp that thinks trump just says things he doesn’t mean and won’t follow through on.

                                                            I think this approach, which seems common with trump followers, is a massive mistake because he actually is that dumb and he’s easily manipulated.

                                                            Follow me through this line of logic and tell me why you disagree. If you take Trump at his word, there will be no American security guarantees for the Ukraine. If you think he’s saying that, but will ultimately provide it, then he’s lying as part of some negotiation tactic. Either way, you can’t trust him or any agreement he is a part of.

                                                              C_J At what point is Trump held responsible for his behaviour? Or is the world supposed to walk on egg shells around the petulant child as long as he’s in power?

                                                              I get what you’re saying about the strict practicality of the situation, but appeasing this behaviour is an awful precedent.

                                                                Homegrove Right wing governments help no one except the rich, nothing new there. Giving in to Putin should be off the table for every reasonable nation and now we’re going to find out how unreasonable the world really is. Humans are the only species who willingly follow unstable leaders.

                                                                  C_J That was never gonna happen, this was a set up all day long.

                                                                  • VR46 replied to this.