• VVR46

    • Post #164
    • Edited

    303abuser I don’t support a deal without security guarenteed that should be blatantly obvious ffs, we had army here for 4 years once we got the ceasefire until peace.

    I shouldn’t of needed to make that crystal clear, jaded clubbers are just speculating, that security wouldn’t of been guarenteed or that trump couldn’t stick to the deal. There is a chance Ukraine lose this war to even if we keeping funding, there is a risk no matter what happens. Need figure out the best way forward.

    I dont know what else you want to hear.

        VR46 Then why are you supporting Trump’s version of diplomacy, when he’s very specifically avoided providing security guarantees?

            303abuser we’ve had an actual representive of our current right wing government say it’s better to do something even if it’s wrong than to do nothing. So far the unemployment has skyrocketed, as has people on welfare. And we also have homeless people now, which has never really been an issue here.

            Giving in to Putin is a similar solution. Sure you’ll have peace, but a lot of people are worse of it, and it won’t last.

                • VVR46

                  • Post #167

                  303abuser He didn’t totally avoid it speculation again, no way was zelensky going to sign it without security guarentees, and as much as trump is meant to be dumb I don’t think he is that dumb, meeting didn’t go far enough to get anywhere really.

                  3 years off nothing also by previous government, so I was open minded to see if it can be ended with some sort of agreement that suits everyone and it still could be I hope, another 4 years of this is not good imo.

                  That’s where I’m at take it or leave it, I’m done here.

                      VR46 where did I say I was in favour of what happened yesterday?

                      you did say that Zelensky was partly to blame at the same time.

                      • VR46 replied to this.

                          • VVR46

                            • Post #170
                            • Edited

                            Along_the_Wire I said wasn’t without some blame either for how it all went, he said United States would feel it, watever that meant and that Ukraine where on their own they certainly haven’t been. His choice of words could have been better at times I hope you watched the full meeting.

                              • C_J

                                • Post #171

                                But Zelenski is partly to blame. His job was to go in there and kiss ass, give Trump what he wanted and then go from there. His job was not to have it out with Trump there and then in front of the press pack in the guys front room, of course that was going to go down badly. Starmer got the memo. Macron got the memo. Now Zelensky’s gone and fucked it.

                                  VR46 Dude, don’t quit now, we’re finally getting somewhere. I’m honestly trying to understand your position. So you’re basically in the camp that thinks trump just says things he doesn’t mean and won’t follow through on.

                                  I think this approach, which seems common with trump followers, is a massive mistake because he actually is that dumb and he’s easily manipulated.

                                  Follow me through this line of logic and tell me why you disagree. If you take Trump at his word, there will be no American security guarantees for the Ukraine. If you think he’s saying that, but will ultimately provide it, then he’s lying as part of some negotiation tactic. Either way, you can’t trust him or any agreement he is a part of.

                                    C_J At what point is Trump held responsible for his behaviour? Or is the world supposed to walk on egg shells around the petulant child as long as he’s in power?

                                    I get what you’re saying about the strict practicality of the situation, but appeasing this behaviour is an awful precedent.

                                      Homegrove Right wing governments help no one except the rich, nothing new there. Giving in to Putin should be off the table for every reasonable nation and now we’re going to find out how unreasonable the world really is. Humans are the only species who willingly follow unstable leaders.

                                        C_J That was never gonna happen, this was a set up all day long.

                                        • VR46 replied to this.

                                            • VVR46

                                              • Post #177
                                              • Edited

                                              Along_the_Wire Could well be setup yeah, because the states just won’t let Ukraine join nato, if Ukraine had nato membership if Russia attacked, the States then have no option but to react directly and then we possibly have ww3, with China looking for any excuse to align with Russia to fight.

                                              If it wasn’t set up and zelensky really wanted more funds to continue the fighting yes he fkd it like CJ said. Everybody and their dog now know how to play trump and it’s by inflating his ego and showing up most respect or he generally loses it, like in the past and has sacked people for it. Starmer played a blinder and no way could any torie or even nigel do better.

                                                  VR46 Ukraine isn’t in NATO, has been attacked and the US are defending.

                                                  I don’t buy any other story from yesterday other than the set up. It’s absurd.

                                                  • VR46 replied to this.

                                                      • VVR46

                                                        • Post #179
                                                        • Edited

                                                        Along_the_Wire Huge difference between sending money to Ukraine military and Nato actually retaliating directly at Moscow. If that had to happen ww3 would be inevitable, thats the line putin just won’t allow and he has nukes remember.

                                                        I hope 303 wouldn’t be a deserter, I fortunetly being from NI won’t be conscripted.

                                                            • erik

                                                              • Post #180

                                                              VR46 China don’t want war, of any kind. Xi has said this a couple of times. When everyone was talking about nukes it was Xi that de escalated the situation

                                                                  VR46 I hope 303 wouldn’t be a deserter

                                                                  I’ve never even held a gun, but if the US actually tried to invade Canada (which I would like to assume is very unlikely), I’d learn guerrilla warfare that day.

                                                                      • Dan

                                                                        • Post #183

                                                                        303abuser Ask someone who knows someone in Hamas…. They’re the current masters at it.