whatever I suspect you will say that in the case of Germany and Greece et al, they are only applying restrictions against unvaccinated people, but as expressed above, this misses the central point that everybody is subject to the same limitations, it is just that one group has elected to opt out.
That’s a twisted way of phrasing things - at first government restrictions forced everyone out of public life and engaging in the everyday freedoms which people had previously taken as a given. Since then, people have rather been forced to jump through newly created (sometimes experimental) hoops in order to go about what was previously normal. It is not that they have “elected to opt out”, it is rather that for whatever reason (and they will be numerous reasons overall) they have not jumped through those created hoops.
To refer to those who have not been vaccinated as a homogenous “one group” who have “elected to opt out” of society is a worrying example of creating an us vs them thinking which can go down a slippery slope. It is also directly in opposition to your claim earlier in the paragraph that “you can’t adopt a reductionist approach to it”.
whatever LT42 also said that some of the decisions taken concerning nightclubs have been clumsy, which I also agreed with
“Clumsy” is being unnecessarily generous - the singling out of clubs for extra harsh treatment is bullshit, and potentially malicious.
whatever which wouldn’t sound out of place substituting it for the words of any dictator of any authoritarian country you care to choose.
As per my response to 303abuser above, my views on this are literally in line with NHS policy - in that it is clearly absurd to try and prevent the loss of any life at any cost. One has to weigh-up the costs and trade-offs with such policies.
That is very different from the authoritarianism as demonstrated in say Stalin’s Soviet Union, or Hitler’s Germany which called for the active eradication of large swathes of the population.
whatever and yet you seem to be worried that this is the preeminent example of authoritarianism (assuming you are also referring to Covid restrictions in the UK, of course
Of course I fully agree that the examples you gave earlier in this paragraph from the UK government are dangerous examples of authoritarian-tendencies and I was aghast when they were attempted as well. But that doesn’t negate the fact that continued enforcement of over-reaching lockdowns is also very much authoritarianism (and the UK has been very much a part of this, however slow its initial response was).
You’re also forgetting or overlooking, that although many of the UK Gov’s attempts of foregoing parliament with regards to Brexit ultimately failed, they did succeed in passing the Coronavirus Act - which enabled it to undertake the emergency powers such as shutting down events and public life and forcing people into self-isolation, without having to consult parliament beforehand. Governments across Europe, including in Germany, have also implemented similar emergency legislation.
What you have been seeing, and are now seeing again with the fear-mongering around the omicron variant, is what was already clear to some including myself, from the beginning of the lockdowns - that once begun, it is easy for governments to repeatedly find new excuses under the guise of covid for controlling populations, restricting freedoms, implementing increased monitoring (eg covid passes) and preventing activities such travelling, attending events, and even protesting.
whatever because they actually want to make other people miserable? Honestly? Nobody in their right mind would hold that view
They might not be in their right mind, but many will hold that view I’m sure. It’s the politics of envy. It’s that phrase derived from George Orwell’s ‘The Road to Wigan Pier’ “socialists don’t care about the poor, they just hate the rich”. In the case of lockdowns one can substitute those lacking in vitality for those full of it - there’ll definitely be a bitter, envious puritanism manifest; if I can’t enjoy myself, then I’ll also stop that those who still could. If I am poor, then I will desire to suck away the wealth of the rich. It’s a similar outlook. It’s dragging people down, rather than enabling freedom and people to lift up. Socialism/Marxism, vs Libertarianism/Capitalism.
whatever What you are seeing is that everyone is fed up and exasperated with it and wants it to come to an end in the shortest time possible but there are those who needlessly perpetuate the situation and society wishes to progress.
Yeah sure, just “3 more weeks to flatten the curve”, right?! It’s bullshit; as demonstrated by Sweden, USA, and now to a degree the UK, the quickest way to end “the situation” rather than perpetuate it, is simply to stop perpetuating it and get on with things, rather than repeatedly making futile and destructive attempts to control it. Those exasperated should ignore the paranoia over it, change their focus, and move on.
whatever Wherever you think that nightclubs sit on that continuum, it is pure obfuscation to claim that nightclubs have no meaningful impact on the spread of the virus.
The burden of proof for shutting down nightclubs should be on those wishing to justify their closure. Even still, those attending nightclubs will already likely be at least 1 step in the chain away from spreading covid to those at risk of death from it, given it’s generally considered that covid is most commonly spread amongst households and those attending clubs are unlikely to be living with the elderly.
Also, at the end of August, the Berlin Senate organised a trial along with the Berlin club commission for observing corona infections in nightclubs. The trial involved people taking PCR tests before and after a club crawl, and found no new corona infections as a result:
https://www.rbb24.de/kultur/thema/corona/beitraege/2021/08/clubculture-reboot-bilanz-berlin-keine-neuinfektionen.html
The UK government also ran a series of trials earlier in the year which you might remember, including a large clubbing event run by Circus in Liverpool, the BRIT awards at the O2 arena, and the FA Cup Final, when just 15 of the 58,000 total attendees were recorded positive afterwards:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/20/exclusive-just-15-positive-covid-tests-among-58000-attended/
Shutting down a well-ventilated club to everyone, especially when vaccinated and non-vaccinated are still mixing readily in supermarkets and domestic settings, just does not add up.
