• Music
  • the production thread

Unbroken1 the earlier demos from a couple of years ago seemed a bit off in parts, but it now sounds pretty mint.

…yeah, actually think all the delays will pay-off with this, looks tight

So, as per usual I have done things completely arse about face and bought myself Ableton, spent wads of cash on Serum, Pigments and a host of FabFilter plug ins and realised (again) that I really need to learn the basics before I confuse the shite out of myself!! - Can anyone suggest a decent course for a beginner that goes through Ableton in a methodical matter. I have learned to my cost over the years that a scattergun approach rarely works for me so watching random You Tube video’s probably isn’t gonna cut it, at least at this point. Any guidance or advice is appreciated and please, don’t make the mistake of crediting me with any knowledge whatsoever. total novice and never owned a DAW before.

    ArchimedesQ what do you want out of making music? is it a hobby, something to keep you mind busy while doing something you enjoy? if you’re looking to become as good as possible as quickly as possible, i’m sure there are courses that are helpful. if it’s just for yourself, enjoy the learning curve, to me that’s half the reason to do it.

    as someone who started out in this exact position (minus all the plugins) a few years ago, here’s my advice (and take it for what it is, i don’t know anything outside my own experience).

    first, learn ableton and don’t spend any more money on plugins. every time you buy something, you have to learn a new tool and ableton itself is unimaginably deep. read the manual, watch a tutorial on something specific when you get stuck, and immediately try to apply what you just learned to ingrain it. rinse and repeat. you can try things like loading a track you like into ableton and break it down to see how it’s arranged, where the instruments sit in the mix, timing, transitions, etc.

    second, and even though it’s going to be complete garbage at the start, aim to finish every song you start. even if the ideas are bad, you need to build that muscle and you’re learning the process of making music. you’ll get stuck a million times and each time you’ll learn a new technique and you’ll get better. as far as i can tell, that process never ends.

    try starting with a simple goal, like making a kick, hat, & snare groove. then add a lead sound, then a bass sound, etc. the best way to learn is by doing. on days where you maybe feel like making music, but things aren’t working and you’re frustrated, do some house keeping instead. make templates, organize samples, mess around with sound design for a couple of hours and just have fun with it.

    bottom line is that you’re at the bottom of a mountain and there’s no way around just digging in. if taking a course helps you, go for it, but it’s not necessary. my experience with whatever new stuff i’m trying to learn, i do best with a quick intro to a tool, mess around with it for a month or two and figure out the basics, then dig into a detailed tutorial. i find things click better that way, ymmv.

    sorry for rambling, i don’t think i really answered your question, but that’s my experience starting from that same spot.

      303abuser Nah, that’s really helpful. I really do understand that it’s not an overnight thing - I experienced the same thing when I first picked up a guitar, albeit a guitar is way simpler. I shall plod along. Really good idea to finish every track as I already have a couple of unfinished projects. I appreciate your advice mate.

        ArchimedesQ you’re welcome, hopefully it helps a little. i’d like to learn how to play the guitar too, just not enough hours in the day at the moment.

        New one! Give it a whirl.

        This started life as a breakbeat pattern from Spectrasonics Stylus. I tend to use Stylus breakbeats but convert them to midi to substitute (some of) the sounds. Many many mutations later it sounds like this. Also needed a lot of improvement from the point I initially sent it for mastering.

          Enjoyed the first 4 minutes or so, heads down warmup material.

          Fragmented a little too much for my personal tastes after that.

          Very decent though, sounds great all the way through and interesting ideas

          apyssjw i liked it too, had almost the same thought as mc … about 2 minutes in when that brassy stab showed up, i thought you were going in a more minimal techno direction. sounds good as always though, really love the first bit, the design on that stab is really cool.

            Make minutes 1 to 4 into an 8 minute rumbler and I’m all over it.

            303abuser

            303abuser

            Thanks for listening and the comments! Buy two copies and loop the start 🙂

            Yeah there’s alot going on. I’ve been recently working on more concise arrangements - but it takes me for ever to finish something so those aren’t likely to see the light of day for a bit.

            Also been working on a few drum and bass tracks for the next album.


              apyssjw you’re welcome. and tell me about it, concise, minimal arrangements are something i always have in mind when i start, then it immediately gets out of hand lol.

              and funny you mention d&b too, i was thinking about going down that path with some atmospheric sounds, but i’m worried about the learning curve on the drums/percs. one thing at a time i guess, i have total adhd when it comes to music.

                303abuser Sonics are one thing but I’d recommend taking some killer sample loops and pulling them apart. I get a lot out of both cutting samples and concerting the audio to midi to replace hits with other sounds etc. It’s just so easy to do in live.

                  apyssjw i know the amen breaks have been sampled and resampled a million times, there’s probably a reason for it. i have to quit biting off more than i can chew … right now i’ve got 3 solo records 85% done, 4 or 5 half finished for the k102 project, and a thousand other ideas. there are worse problems to have i guess.

                  out of curiosity, have you ever used splice for collaborations? i’m trying it out, but it’s not quite as intuitive as it should be. or i’m dumb haha.

                    apyssjw i’m hoping so. it’s almost like cloud syncing for ableton, but i can’t figure it out. i’ve uploaded stems, but when i sync it back to ableton, it says the samples are missing, like if you moved the folder and the pointer is going to the wrong place. i assume i’m missing something obvious, but their help files are useless. time to start exploring message boards for a solution.

                    ahead of bandcamp friday tomorrow, here’s my latest (it’ll be on all the usual streaming places tuesday). i was trying to get that yagya style mix on this one with smooth, blended chords and pads. i think i got some of it right, it’s a work in progress as always. hope you like it, happy to have feedback too.

                    5 days later

                    Like the kick and the bass mix and the wobbly bass pattern. Some of the panned high percussion pops out a little but that’s being a bit picky and could be a taste thing in any event.

                    Not familiar with yagya. Whats a high watermark in that (his?) style?

                      apyssjw thanks, i tried some different things with the mix this time and it’s definitely not perfect, but got me out of my comfort zone a bit. trying to balance some of the old, kind of jarring dub mixing along with newer ideas. it’ll get there eventually i hope.

                      i think you could throw a dart at yagya’s albums and not go wrong, but sleepygirls and ringing are my favorites.

                      ableton 11 out on the 23rd. still haven’t decided if i’m going to upgrade while it’s 20% off. there are definitely features i like and i’d use, but it just feels like a 10.5 version.

                      Took the plunge for the early discount on 11 and officially all of my productions are on hold until I have mastered all the new features (gotta have an excuse for my lack of output).

                      Deffo a 10.5 release. Expecting some good things in the packs and at least plenty of new patches to get it to what you would expect for it being a proper 11 release. I get the feeling that if people don’t upgrade then they’ll have to release a follow up update with at least a new synth or something it in. Otherwise people will just wait for 12.

                      those are kind of my thoughts too. if i’m going to buy it in the future, i may as well do it now because i don’t see a better discount than 20% coming. if i don’t, then waiting until 12 makes more sense. i understand they opened the beta up to the public now too.

                      ..not going for it on the basis that I was late going 9 > 10 and have barely scratched the surface of the new features in the 12′ish months I’ve had that.

                      £143 isn’t a vast amount for an upgrade, but it feels it after spending £250+ not that long ago

                      i’m in the same boat, upgrading to 10 a little over a year ago. i’m going to try to hold out, but i’m weak. 😅

                      I’m not planning to go for it - primarily, as I’ve mentioned above, because it’s Windows 10 only.

                      LT42 …really good man, subtle take and some nice new elements. Any chance of a d/l?

                      • LT42 replied to this.

                        Dan I’ve passed those on, some tasty bits & pieces there. Nice one, Dan 👍

                        LT42 That’s really nice, I’d also love a download if possible? 🙂

                        • LT42 replied to this.

                          Does anyone listen to production podcasts? I’ve only really got into '‘appetite for production’ - where the focus is primarily on plugins / software. The presenting style on that is an acquired taste but I find I agree with a lot of their opinions. Just listened to the first one back after xmas and the discussions around drilling down on the technical side of a mix (set against the potential audience!) and burn out definitely had some resonance for me.

                          https://www.a4ppodcast.com/home/80-gibbering-and-drooling

                          Any other recommendations?

                            apyssjw i haven’t really dug into this one, but it was ok from what i’ve listened to …

                            out today on pragmat, i’ve linked our track “time breach” plus the compilation. tons of good techno to listen to, free or pay what you want on bandcamp.

                            i feel like we really got this one right, but always happy to know what everyone else thinks.

                            https://pragmat.bandcamp.com/

                              303abuser Good mix. Nice clean kick and bass - partial to a bit of driving off beat action. I give it a thumbs up emoji - would play!

                              Perhaps, and this is just something to think about, think about different approaches to the width on some of the fx. It’s absolutely fine as it is, with the hats moving around - but another approach would be to move more of the fx to the sides / keeping the hats static.