the production thread

Mad_Cyril

Amps
Good point. Is the current one expected to end then?

Amps

Mad_Cyril Some time shortly after the crotch goes in my favourite Sergio Tacchini trackie 👍️

303abuser

Amps No, you’re absolutely right. That’s what I meant by grouping sounds by layers. I’d put toms in with either the kick & bass group if they’re filling that part of the spectrum or with percs if they’re sitting higher up. You could do that with a separate insert reverb, two different return channels, or just alter the send amount. Basically, try a few things and see how they sound.

Amps

303abuser Basically, try a few things and see how they sound.

So, you could, in theory, end up with everything having quite different reverb on it, but with it all still sounding boss and ‘together’ etc?

303abuser

Amps It’s possible, but the more you use different delays and reverbs, the harder it is to keep things sounding together. The part that’s tough while you’re learning is hearing that difference. I didn’t realize how disjointed some of my earlier tracks were until I started to get this right. And I’ve got a lot of leeway with dub techno as it’s inherently hazy and muddled. If you’re aiming for a clean aesthetic, you have to be much more judicious.

As an example, you might want two reverb sends, one a tight plate for percussion/stabs and another wide spacey reverb for pads and chords. Then you route the output of both of them to a track and eq/saturate/compress them together to make them gel. There’s a million ways to do that, but hopefully that’s simple enough to make sense.

Morty-C-137

@Amps MacPro Video still has a 75% off single courses for today with coupon: 22CMMPV75

Check this one out: https://macprovideo.com/course/sound-design-101-diego-stocco-creative-sound-design?afid=1dvm5iGsqX

There is no one thing to do things or a “correct” way. As long as it sounds good in the end all is fair game. Starting out, those endless possibilities can be daunting.

Amps

Cheers gents, just trying to sort out the hard lines from the slightly more moveable lines.

303abuser

Anytime, I’m happy to share the little bit that I’ve learned in the last 5 years. It never ends and that’s a big part of what I enjoy about it.

Morty-C-137

Same here!

loopdokter

Amps So, just so I have this right in my head, kicks on one track, snare on another, claps on another etc? Each piece of percussion gets it’s own separate track? Then, group / send them to a glue compressor or the like when you are happy with it?

Exactly correct sir. Over time you can build out an FX group that you can save for slapping on busses (AKA ‘Groups’ in Ableton) that are designed to process certain types of audio.

The method I use above is a very traditional way of working that harkens back to the old school recording to tape in a fuck off studio. This would be how they’d process audio once down on tape.

loopdokter

apyssjw Re the midi timing thing - I remember it being a BT pet hate. It’s not something I get too hung up about. Whatever sounds good, sounds good. Both approaches (and a hybrid between the two) are equally valid.

I may not be in love with a lot of his newer music, but BT is a huge influence upon me as an engineer and producer. I was fortunate enough to get to know him a bit in the late 1990s and early 2000s and he would share some amazing production tips with me at the time. Recording to audio right away was one of those tips.

MIDI has serious lag issues. I use it begrudgingly because I’m not a player and have retrofitted some of my synths that didn’t have it, because at the very least it then allows me to get into a DAW and play around with the timing on a grid. I’m a bit of a ‘it must be in time’ Nazi.

The attention to detail he gets to on tracks is nucking futs.

Amps

loopdokter MIDI has serious lag issues

Still an issue if you’re just using a DAWs in built synth?

Amps

Re Ableton.

The whole moving from Session to Arrangement view is clumsy and unnecessarily complicated as fuck.

Thank you for your time.

ArchimedesQ

Amps Use 2 screens mate, job done

loopdokter

Amps Re Ableton.

The whole moving from Session to Arrangement view is clumsy and unnecessarily complicated as fuck.

Thank you for your time.

Use the tab key - or a dual monitor setup and make sure that the ‘Second Window’ option is checked under the Options menu.

You owe me a pint.

Morty-C-137

Amps Still an issue if you’re just using a DAWs in built synth?

Nope.

loopdokter

Amps Still an issue if you’re just using a DAWs in built synth?

Not really. If you’re using VSTs/AU/VST3 MIDI jitter/lag isn’t really an issue due to reasons that are far too complicated to explain here. It’s really more an issue with external hardware synths due to reasons that are far too complicated to bother explaining here.

That said, one of the reasons older records from the early 2000s and before aren’t always bang on time is because the drums were done via MIDI, so you get jitter/lag. The same applies for the actual synth sounds, so it can add a certain ‘groove’ to the sound that some people like. I on the other hand like my stuff to be quite stiff sounding in terms of timing so that’s it’s so mechanical it’s funky.

303abuser

I’ll defer to loopy, but I’ve never had an issue with midi jitter in the box. Chaining multiple hardware synths is where the issue pops up at times for me, but nothing serious.

303abuser

ArchimedesQ I should have mentioned this, dual screens is the only way to go. Flipping back and forth is a nightmare.

303abuser

loopdokter I on the other hand like my stuff to be quite stiff sounding in terms of timing so that’s it’s so mechanical it’s funky.

Don’t you find music lacks groove if everything is right on the grid? I grid my kicks and almost everything else is slightly off. Always nudge my snares forward, hats back, swing delays, lfos are free running.

Amps

It’s not the actual ‘flipping’ from one screen to another that is the issue, it’s the behaviour of Tracks and Clips and other bits when you do, none of it is intuitive. I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it, but at present it’s a genuine issue.

loopdokter

Amps It’s not the actual ‘flipping’ from one screen to another that is the issue, it’s the behaviour of Tracks and Clips and other bits when you do, none of it is intuitive. I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it, but at present it’s a genuine issue.

I don’t use Session view whatsoever. I know lots of people who do, but you’re right that it’s integration in between the two is clunky.

I would suggest just using Arrangement view mate. Set up your loop points over 8, 16, 32 or 64 bars and build that way. It’s a more linear way of working. Outside of Logic and Bitwig, every other DAW is designed like this. The power of Ableton is the way you can easily route stuff and create things so quickly. I would argue its audio engine isn’t as good as things like Cubase, Logic, Studio One, etc.

Just because Session is there doesn’t mean you have to use it. It’s more or less designed for live use anyway. I use Session to DJ with.

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