The Climate Change Thread
Amps both really. Simms is spouting hot air. “We need to find alternative means for travel” is such a hollow argument for a few reasons. No.1 being, the aviation industry is leading the way in the use of low footprint SAF since 2008 and major airlines will transition to this with next gen aircraft over the next 20 years. Its a technology that’s been in development for decades. No.2 being, he makes no argument for what should replace this kind of long haul travel, what does he suggest, hot air balloons? Horse and carriage?
Its just another example of some twat spouting disingenuous and controversial nonsense on Twitter for likes and shares, maybe to promote a new book. It would be better if he was realistic as the aviation industry isn’t going anywhere.
“Ban aviation Advertising”… jesus
LT42 short flights should be replaced with trains though. If it takes you three hours by train, and two with an airplane with all the airport hassle included, it should always be more convenient to take the train. Finnish government is actually aiding in country-flights financially, when that money could be used to add more trains, and making the train tickets more affordable. Situations where a flight is cheaper than a train when both companies are government owned is fucking nuts.
Yeah, lots of it is discussed in the comments.
LT42 the aviation industry is leading the way in the use of low footprint SAF since 2008 and major airlines will transition to this with next gen aircraft over the next 20 years.
Yeah, I think a lot of people are worried that some half arsed green washing campaign from historically untrustworthy oil companies to be implemented at some point in the future isn’t going to save a planet that is on fire.
LT42 he makes no argument for what should replace this kind of long haul travel
Understandably, he doesn’t give a fuck about most long haul travel; holiday makers, business trips, private jets, fuck em all.
lets say it’s 50 / 50 if climate scientists are right and in how bad it might get. So it’s a 50 / 50 chance that in the next twenty five years or so we see wars around the world for resources like food and water, movement of people like we have never even imagined and whole load of disease thrown in to boot, lets say as bad as covid but possibly worse (my assumption is that most tropical diseases like malaria, cholera, yellow fever dengue fever are worse than covid). Holiday industry will be fucked, businesses will be fucked, peoples day to day lives will be fucked… so, maybe making the changes to how we live / eat / travel / shop etc. now is better than watching it all turn to shit in front of our eyes a few years down the road.
Anyway, those changes needed are so unpalatable to most people none of it will ever happen.
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Amps so, maybe making the changes to how we live / eat / travel / shop etc. now
I agree with the long term stuff you’re talking about, Amps but it’s unreasonable and also impossible to change overnight. It will take decades to impliment and reverse and as I mentioned the aviation industry is already 15 years or thereabouts into the process so I just find his argument extremely weak and reactionary from the writer. There are other sectors that should be addressed long before we come to aviation - the likes of NBP, Cargill and Tyson Foods in the US are a major contributor of pollution, far more than the aviation industry yet they never get a mention. I’d like to know why.
There were protestors on the track at Silverstone the other week and to call them ignorant would be an understatement given the advances Formula1 have made with biofuels. There’s a lot of ignorance going around and Simms just perpetuates it.
I got the train to a wedding in Northamptonshire this weekend.
Cheers!
LT42 it’s unreasonable and also impossible to change overnight
It wont.
LT42 There were protestors on the track at Silverstone the other week and to call them ignorant would be an understatement given the advances Formula1 have made with biofuels. There’s a lot of ignorance going around and Simms just perpetuates it.
I get it, but you can’t expect perfection from a protest, you can’t not do something just because it can’t be done perfectly. I agree, the steel and concrete industries are far worse than the aviation industry, but protesting outside their factories or mines won’t get you a jot of coverage and won’t engage anyone at all. Formula 1, sports in general, holidays, flights, commutes, supermarkets… all things we know and can relate to, that’s where you need a visible protest.
I assume the F1 protests where to do with their air miles as a sport rather than what they put in the cars? Anyway, imagine the likes of Ecclestone or whoever now owns F1 giving a fuck.
Amps I assume the F1 protests where to do with their air miles as a sport rather than what they put in the cars? Anyway, imagine the likes of Ecclestone or whoever now owns F1 giving a fuck.
From what I read they were protesting fuel consumption. If you’re going to protest you should at least understand the scope of what you’re protesting for.
I don’t think coverage makes the slightest bit of difference anyway. The Tour de France has had protesters sitting in the middle of the road which held the race up and they got coverage, as of this minute nobody knows what they were protesting for.
Unfortunately these kinds of groups still haven’t found a way to protest effectively without coming off as total amateurs and time wasters.
LT42 I don’t think coverage makes the slightest bit of difference anyway.
I disagree, Extinction Rebellion have been on the TV and have been invited on to debates, they wouldn’t have done that without the protests, and as such, they are in the public consciousness.
LT42 Unfortunately these kinds of groups still haven’t found a way to protest effectively without coming off as total amateurs and time wasters.
I’m not sure there is anything else they can do, if you don’t have money or power it’s very difficult. Plus, they have history on their side, which says direct action works.
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Amps Extinction Rebellion have been on the TV and have been invited on to debates
I had to google the name. Has there been any changes in legislation as a result of their protests?
People have been staging environmental protests since the 60s, yes awareness has grown and at this point the general population are more involved in areas of recycling and what the root causes are but still these groups haven’t found an effective way to force change without coming off as a nuisance which ultimately spoils the message.
I remember “Swampy” from the 90s. He was onto something.
Calm down lads. Your great grandparents were doing colonialism in twice the heat you’re currently experiencing.
Amps no, the perception of protests from the public is that they’re a nuisance because they can’t find a way to protest effectively.
Boyan Slat and his Ocean Cleanup project have done far more for the environment than any of these protest groups have done. Effective proactive work rather than chaining yourself to your mate in the middle of a sporting event is a far better solution imo. Of course there are costs involved, maybe I’m not aware but have Extinction Rebellion rolled out any projects that tackle the problem head on?
That’s a bit apples and oranges in the comparison though. One kid with one objective, who got some backing, vs a disparate group of people from all over the globe.
Also, as we have just been saying, effectiveness is key. ER want change where it matters, at governmental level, which could truly have an impact on the environment. Individual people, regardless of their innovation and application are unlikely to make the kinds of changes needed.
Again, I wouldn’t worry too much about it, nothing will change. And their protests are hardly destroying sport at the moment, you can stay tuned in.
Amps Also, as we have just been saying, effectiveness is key. ER want change where it matters, at governmental level, which could truly have an impact on the environment. Individual people, regardless of their innovation and application are unlikely to make the kinds of changes needed.
Again, I wouldn’t worry too much about it, nothing will change. And their protests are hardly destroying sport at the moment, you can stay tuned in.
I hear ya but Slat is clearly more effective not just in raw numbers and actual progress than these groups as we both know ER are pissing into the wind by trying to change Govt policy. Last Friday his new System 002 lifted 77 tons of plastic out of one area of the Ocean. That’s real progress.
Until the large Corps decide to shift Govt policy nothing will change which is why more direct projects are far more effective at this point.
I wouldn’t say any protests are destroying sport either, they’re just ill prepared and pointless which defeats the purpose.