Mix Club - The Remedial Class

303abuser

Along_the_Wire that’s a really open question, we’d probably need to hear an example. could be the way you’re bringing in new sounds, phrasing, or even the key change from one record to the next.

Amps

Along_the_Wire Crossfaders will regularly have a ‘sharp’ or ‘quick’ volume transition, so even if you are super slow / careful with it, it will still bring in a fair bit of volume from the new track, that might be where your mix is getting it’s ‘energy’. Just be a bit more boisterous with your channel faders and you should get the same effect. As mentioned, I could be barking up the wrong tree though.

Along_the_Wire

Amps I’ve got both channel faders
up and using the EQs to bring the punch

Dubman

I put my hand across the channel then wack it up so as to not bring it in to loud,

303abuser

Along_the_Wire that’s possibly your problem, try it the opposite way. keep the highs up, mids low, bass cut and slam the fader up after the break. slowly swap the mids and bring the bass in quickly or slowly, depending on how well they mesh together.

Along_the_Wire

303abuser That’s what I’m doing. I meant both channel faders are up when I start farting around with the EQs. I’m beatmatching, then turn the mid and bass down, bring up the channel fader and then start the fiddle.

baggers44

303abuser that would be my advice too - if you watch a lot of DJs its the final twiddle with the bass which adds the punch and they sometimes knock off the bass a bit on the outgoing track 2 bars early so as to provide the contrast for the bass injection of the new track. the other thing is that some tracks output volume is quite variable and just sound quieter when the flashing lights suggest otherwise …

303abuser

Along_the_Wire ah ok, i thought you meant you were using the eqs to bring the levels up. it’s a smooth way to mix, but won’t necessarily create energy. if your mixing techniques doesn’t seem to be the issue, really look at phrasing. mixing in earlier could help and look at key jumps (if you use the camelot system, moving up in numbers translates to increasing energy iirc).

Along_the_Wire

303abuser I spent a lot of time today working on two loops - pretty sure the phrasing was bang on - crossfader mixing didn’t lose any energy. I’ll work it out - was fun today - the actual beatmatching improved a lot. The jog wheels are so, so good compared to what they were originally.

Amps

303abuser mixing in earlier could help

Yeah, have a look at this, but if you think your timing / phrasing is good, maybe record what you are doing now and then go back to the crossfader and record that, listen back to them both and compare etc.

Also, and this might not be universally agreed upon, but I would never fade basslines or have both bass elements playing at the same time. I might fade one kick drum into another if there are no other bass elements at play, but I would never fade basslines / bass elements with either the faders or EQ. It almost never sounds clean, even if they are different sounding voices and in different octaves etc having them playing at the same time gets muddy. You can sometimes get away with it in a club on a ‘boomy’ system, but recorded and listened back it always sounds a bit amateurish / shite to me. I like a nice clean change from one bassline / bass to the other. That said, lots of top DJs to mix their basses / basslines / bass elements together at times.

303abuser

that’s good, making progress at the beginning is really rewarding. it all comes down to practice, which is pretty easy if you enjoy doing it. how long are your average mixes between two records? 30 seconds? 2 minutes?

Along_the_Wire

303abuser I’m giving myself around
two minutes - I need to experiment with the timing on the EQs I suppose. Today was brilliant though, love it.

303abuser

Along_the_Wire that should be enough time to use the line/eq method vs the cross fader. and amps is right about the bass stuff. on trick i liked, but it requires good beat matching and some balls if you’re doing it in front of a crowd, was to throw the new record at the start of the break, drop the bass out of the old track, and bring the fader up on the new track with just the lows coming it. if your beats are on, it’s a really imperceptible way to bring in a new track. requires similar or more energy on the incoming track to really work, unless your goal is to settle things down.

Along_the_Wire

Amps I would never fade basslines

What do you mean by that, Amps?

Along_the_Wire

Cheers Amps, will give that a go mate.

Along_the_Wire

303abuser One for the future pal!

303abuser

Along_the_Wire definitely more advanced, but should be way easier on a controller than it was on vinyl. that shit is scary the first time you do it in front of people. 🤣

Mad_Cyril

Along_the_Wire was about to ask.

Sat here with notebook and best crayons 👍

303abuser

think he means slowly fading one out and one in vs a clean swap. bass takes up a lot of headroom and unless the two bass lines compliment each other really well, swapping is a better strategy.

Amps

303abuser For fucks sake, how did you just sum up my three paragraphs in one sentence? 😆

Amps

I would never have two bass lines playing at the same time. They are no different from other melodies in a track. If you have two of them playing at the same time you can argue that you don’t have your phrasing right. You wouldn’t have your two main melodies playing at the same time would you? You might have second / sporting melodies or synth lines interacting where they work together, but not your bass lines, they are too distinctive to the track, and rarely work together. Just think of them as elements that shouldn’t me mixed. This is all personal opinion.

So er, frequencies, yeah… I’m not a producer and my knowledge of some of this is sketchy at best, so I might be talking out of my hoop here… Bass lines in prog and other electronic music all occupy a similar place on the frequency spectrum, and more importantly all sound fairly similar, have similar ‘voices’ and qualities (in my opinion obvs), so if you play them at the same time, they just sound very muddy and a bit of a mess, you can’t differentiate one from the other very well, so, erm, why bother? If you play two main melodies at the same time, one a classic piano sound / voice and the other a very electronic synth wave sound / voice, they might also occupy a similar place on the frequency spectrum, but you could differentiate one from the other due to the very different qualities of the sound, and they probably wouldn’t sound too bad.

Next, volume, and again, I might be chatting baubles here… This bit is about kick drums and bass lines, we shall just refer to both of them as the collective ‘bass’… Because the bass on track A and track B occupy similar frequencies, if you play them at the same time, your doubling the amount off bass output. You’ve just listened to nine and a half minutes of beautifully balanced bass, mid and treble on some obscure epic house track, and then, whamo! Double the bass! In a club you would notice it as being fucking loud and or a clunky as fuck mix, and on a recording it would just fuck with your overall levels. So… why doesn’t the same happen with the mids and the highs? Well, it can, but in my opinion it’s less noticeable. Probably something to do with the human ear and ‘perceivable sound’ vs ‘actual volume’. Also, if you play two similar kick drums at the same time, you will encounter all manner of volume issues and you may get the dreaded ‘phasing’ where the bass lines cancel each other out, and disappear into a flat nothing sound with a shitty clipping sound to boot!

*I don’t produce, I haven’t played out in a long time, still do mixes online though, could be talking broken biscuits, just starting my 4th beer.

303abuser

Amps haha detail is good too and you’re pretty accurate with everything. honestly, i spend way too much time thinking about things like low end compression, side chaining, note placement, octaves, saturation and everything else that goes along with getting kick and bass to play well together. being a nerd is a great time. 🤣

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