Sunak (General U.K. is Jaded thread)

whatever

I worked with the healthcare sector and saw it first hand. I worked directly with the managers cutting back services, closing treatment centres etc. all the while being softened up for the steady drip of privatisation. The NHS was running at a deficit of something like £40-50bn at one point. The funding did increase at points, but by the time it did, the deficit was so great that it was never able to catch up.

Amps

C_J It’s not up for dispute, it’s just maths. No one is arguing about that.

I fuckin am. It has been run successfully for a very long time, it’s only the underfunding and capitalist attitudes of more recent governments that have fucked it. Remove the internal market from it, bullshit £10,000 doors and the like, have it managed by a government who give a shit and don’t want to asset strip the country, and I’m sure it will do just fine!

Old-Dutch

Amps . Remove the internal market from it, bullshit £10,000 doors and the like

This is exactly the same in the University sector by the way. Completely boiled my piss the extent of the wasted money that goes towards simple Estates projects

Dubman

I work in logistics and the amount of money the NHS pays to private contractors is frightening. A few weeks ago I took one small box from Worthing hospital to Brighton hospital. Got paid £40 but the company I worked for charged them much more.

C_J

Dubman I work in logistics and the amount of money the NHS pays to private contractors is frightening. A few weeks ago I took one small box from Worthing hospital to Brighton hospital. Got paid £40 but the company I worked for charged them much more.

and that’s a perfect example of why the NHS is shit. Your employer wouldn’t be able to rip off a private business like this because they’d find a cheaper supplied of logistics (or go bust). The NHS, on the other hand, has enormous purchasing power yet will always pay as much as possible for stuff.

Why? Because if they don’t use up all their budgets and then some, they can’t claim they’ve run out of cash and demand more with all the usual stories of being overwhelmed and underfunded each winter.

Old-Dutch

The NHS should take control of all of their own car parks imo. Run them as an organisation and funnel the money back into the service.

Millsy

Old-Dutch this would wipe out the NHS funding gap overnight. The price of the cunts.

Old-Dutch

It would be a good fucking start. With the economy of scale they have across the entire service it wouldn’t be too hard a job to manage

whatever

It’s easy enough to say the NHS is fucked and no longer fit for purpose and ripe for privatisation, but there is an inconvenient truth behind how it got there. The Tories had a very conscious plan to drive it into the ground to get to the point where the vultures could rub their hands at the profits to be made.

alistair

Makes me laugh that no one ever points the finger at NHS England (with their £130bn annual budget) or the CEOs of all the hospital trusts. The electorate have no idea how it’s structured

whatever

Don’t look here…look over there!

whatever

C_J Why? Because if they don’t use up all their budgets and then some, they can’t claim they’ve run out of cash and demand more with all the usual stories of being overwhelmed and underfunded each winter.

Blimey.

Amps

C_J and that’s a perfect example of why the NHS is shit. Your employer wouldn’t be able to rip off a private business like this because they’d find a cheaper supplied of logistics (or go bust).

FFS… it works like that because of the internal market the Tories set up. Before then they had their own salaried janitors to do repairs, salaried drivers for deliveries etc. They had no dealings with outside companies to spend money with. The current model is designed to spend as much money with private companies as possible, fattening the wallets of Tory donors and friends. Our failed business men and women politicians have to have somewhere to go and ‘work’ after they leave office.

The broken internal market doesn’t mean it should be pushed further along the privatisation / capitalist direction. It should revert back to it’s earlier model, no internal market, salaried janitors, repair men, cleaners, drivers etc.

Think about how shit Brexit has been, can you imagine how shit the privatisation of the NHS would be? The gravy train of all gravy trains. They would stitch us up like fuckin kippers.

Talk about not getting it. The Bomb in 97, Tyrant, Sasha is redefining prog house, he’s just dropped ManMadeMan - Karmaflage, the place is turning itself inside out, CJ’s got a bag of Mitsubishis, but he flushed them earlier and is sitting in the corner with headphones on listening to two step garage. He’s probably wearing Dermo’s shit watch.

Dubman

C_J and that’s a perfect example of why the NHS is shit. Your employer wouldn’t be able to rip off a private business like this because they’d find a cheaper supplied of logistics (or go bust). The NHS, on the other hand, has enormous purchasing power yet will always pay as much as possible for stuff.

Sorry for the late reply. The problem is where i get my work from is a bidding platform. Sometimes i have no idea what the actual job is until my price has been accepted. So sometime the logistics company will just accept the lowest price. I’m not sure how the companies i work for get the work off the NHS. Either the logistics dept of the NHS have no idea what prices are or they just don’t care as long as the job is completed.

C_J

Another way to frame the debate would be to say: the government spends £2 on health for every £1 they spend on education.

Would you like that to go up to 3:1 ?

4:1 perhaps?

Or should we be trying to close the gap and spending more on education and less on “health care”?

whatever

C_J

That seems to be a completely different point to the one you just made about ‘consciously trying to run out of cash’. What is the £2 spent on health for every £1 spent on education based on?

Are you going back to your If-Then fallacy about rich people who pay taxes v poor people that are obese etc?

C_J

Amps It should revert back to it’s earlier model, no internal market, salaried janitors, repair men, cleaners, drivers etc.

🤣😅 good one

Old-Dutch

A lot of the issues come from internal Procurement Teams and processes / policies. Was the same in the University sector. They go through their list of suppliers and cut them right down and have a few preferred suppliers who are supposedly cheaper than the suppliers they get rid of. They never are and I’d wager there’s a lot of brown envelopes going around behind the scenes.

You can only order from suppliers on the system so you’re at the mercy of what is a available to you

whatever

Old-Dutch I’d wager there’s a lot of brown envelopes going around

They’re usually left on doorsteps before lighting, aren’t they ?

gcw

Old-Dutch if you have a good procurement team this can be avoided (in theory). Your preferred suppliers agree prices up front, and they can’t be changed apart from inflationary increases.

The downside is that suppliers bid a silly price get selected on the preferred suppliers list, then say ’we can’t honour the contract unless you agree a price rise’. You either accept it or start all over again…..its usually the former

C_J

Old-Dutch I’d wager there’s a lot of brown envelopes going around behind the scenes.

What, you mean at one of the tax-deductible 4 day ~~skiing~~ study trips to val d’isere? What a scurrilous and completely unfounded allegation!

Mad_Cyril

gcw From extensive PS experience, this is a big if.

Amps

gcw You have to remember the entire system at the minute is a con, a grift, it’s rigged on purpose to make companies and their executives richer and the people poorer. It’s a redistribution of wealth up the ladder. Arguing the minutia of it is a distraction. They want you to think ‘the system could work if only…’ when it really can’t because it was never designed to work, only to make their friends richer.

C_J

What’s a good ratio of health spending to education spending then Amps?

It’s currently 2x

I’d like to see it move towards 1.5x or at least not go above 2x

What’s your thoughts?

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