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  • Truss (general uk sucks thread)

bosstrabs “I believe government should be devolved down to the lowest possible level, and the nation-state is closer to people than the EU"

You’re right but at the end of the day that standpoint is/was just a fanciful notion when it’s clear the Govt could not give 2 fucks about people, anyone thinking they do is far removed from reality.

Special interests have and always will take precedent over the general population and I just can’t get my head around relatively intelligent people thinking otherwise.

    bosstrabs that said, a lot of remainers like Osborne and Blair prognosticated that big foreign investors like Nissan would close their plants in the event of a leave vote. It hasn’t happened and they remain committed now that a trade deal has been struck. I was persuaded myself by these arguments of financial armageddon into voting remain. Our financial services sector will still undeniably be the biggest in Europe. I bow to no one in my antipathy towards most #FBPE headbangers, but I still think we should have stayed. As a semi detached EU member with full access to the single market without being in the single currency, we arguably had the best of both worlds before.

        Amps what the fuck would Terry Christian know. Thick as mince

          Jimmy Krankie is concentrating on the task at hand, finding time to reignite the independence campaign and whip up more nationalist rhetoric.

          bosstrabs came down in favour of Leave on the basis of sovereignty/accountability/‘how do we remove these bastards when they don’t act in our interests?(at least you can remove a Westminster government)’, which to me is quite a reasonable argument

          Erm, is it?

          Have none of you actually heard of the European Parliament and European Council?

              hugopal Erm, is it?

              Have none of you actually heard of the European Parliament and European Council?

              I’m not going to bother wasting time here setting arguments out IN FAVOUR of Brexit, when it’s clear I am a Remainer.

              You know damn well there is a fairly obvious ‘problem’ of the likes of Charles Michel not actually being elected by and accountable to voters.

                  alistair the deal with Japan is more expensive than the deal the EU had. This will happen everywhere. It’ll cost the consumer.

                  Racism combined with old cunts harking back the golden age of Great Britain are responsible for Brexit. I hope they all die, frankly.

                      Along_the_Wire Racism combined with old cunts harking back the golden age of Great Britain are responsible for Brexit. I hope they all die, frankly.

                      Its the elephant in the room and you’re probably right, it’s clearer now that people laid their hats on economic pipe dreams, well at least those who aren’t outwardly racist, and they were badly misinformed. The rest of the knuckledraggers driven by prejudice and racism of course.
                      Those pointing their fingers at bureaucrats in Brussels and not seeing the difference between them and the chickenhawks in Westminster will always be a mystery to me.

                        Along_the_Wire oh come on mate, we’ve all got friends that are politically different to us haven’t we? Whether my mate voted Brexit, Tory or is a momentum member is not isn’t high on my criteria of what makes a decent mate.

                            alistair people that voted Brexit are no fucking friends of mine pal. I can just about get over one or two of them voting Tory.

                              bosstrabs the likes of Charles Michel not actually being elected by and accountable to voters

                              He’s elected by the people the voters elect.

                              It’s not really any different from say the role of the Bundespresident in Germany’s democratic system (currently Steinmeier).

                              It’s hardly a huge deal. The EC Presidents get 2.5 year terms and the Council can also vote to remove them. They seem to mostly be mediators and administrators rather than having any significant power.

                                  hugopal He’s elected by the people the voters elect.

                                  It’s not really any different from say the role of the Bundespresident in Germany’s democratic system (currently Steinmeier).

                                  It’s hardly a huge deal. The EC Presidents get 2.5 year terms and the Council can also vote to remove them. They seem to mostly be mediators and administrators rather than having any significant power.

                                  It is a huge deal and it’s the same for von der Leyden. The executive should be elected by, accountable to, and removed by the people, in whom sovereignty resides.

                                  It majorly pisses me off that the EU and its most ardent supporters don’t fully recognise that this (rightly) allows Euroscepticism to breed.

                                    hugopal it’s one step removed. Do you know what the average turnout is at EU elections in the UK? About 35%. No one gives a fuck. You call that democratic legitimacy? Who votes for Commissioners (people with real power) and the EU presidents? They are political appointees, often failed politicians like Peter Mandelson. Same with Junker, von der Leyen etc.

                                        alistair it’s one step removed. Do you know what the average turnout is at EU elections in the UK? About 25%. No one gives a fuck. You call that democratic legitimacy.

                                        The fact that people don’t bother to vote for something despite the fact that they can is not really the same thing as there being a lack of democratic accountability.

                                        The European Commission has similarities to the UK Civil Service, which isn’t voted for either. It’s a workhorse of intelligent and qualified minds that is ultimately accountable to and sits underneath the elected bodies.

                                            hugopal The European Commission has similarities to the UK Civil Service, which isn’t voted for either.

                                            The European Commission is the executive.

                                                All infinitely preferable to the hegemonic Tory, Old Estonian soup we have in Westminster.

                                                  Millsy All infinitely preferable to the hegemonic Tory, Old Estonian soup we have in Westminster.

                                                  But committed Europhiles (apparently Hugo) miss the point completely.

                                                  It’s that the whole opaque system and the distancing of the executive from the popular vote is what feeds Euroscepticism and gives it its most potent weapons.

                                                  Yet Europe blunders on, not recognising that, being too myopic to embark on the genuinely democratic reforms needed.