Truss (general uk sucks thread)

Amps

bosstrabs while accepting the economic effects were worse than they’d hoped they would be

This I think is where I think my head falls off… the lack of insight or cynicism towards what would happen. Do they all still believe it was done for sovereignty and the like?

bosstrabs

Amps Well, for some, they did vote that way based on the sovereignty position.

I also know someone who somewhat secretly confided to me “End of the day, I am a bit of a racist and I don’t want any more of the fuckers here, I don’t care if they come from Poland or Pakistan and I don’t care if it fucks the economy for a while”, and I would respect Leavers more if more of them just said this 😆

Amps

Along_the_Wire Sorry, on this I meant that it might be about immigration for the average thicket in the street, but I think it was about money for the politicians and their mates etc.

LT42

Amps The offshore tax havens have been protected and regulators in Brussels can’t get their hands on them. Job done.

bosstrabs

LT42 The offshore tax havens have been protected and regulators in Brussels can’t get their hands on them. Job done.

You and I know that this was the major driver.

Nevertheless, it doesn’t totally invalidate the sovereignty/accountability position some Brexiters hold. If you rephrase it as “I believe government should be devolved down to the lowest possible level, and the nation-state is closer to people than the EU” I can understand their position. I would still vote Remain tomorrow, but it’s an understandable position

LT42

bosstrabs “I believe government should be devolved down to the lowest possible level, and the nation-state is closer to people than the EU"

You’re right but at the end of the day that standpoint is/was just a fanciful notion when it’s clear the Govt could not give 2 fucks about people, anyone thinking they do is far removed from reality.

Special interests have and always will take precedent over the general population and I just can’t get my head around relatively intelligent people thinking otherwise.

alistair

bosstrabs that said, a lot of remainers like Osborne and Blair prognosticated that big foreign investors like Nissan would close their plants in the event of a leave vote. It hasn’t happened and they remain committed now that a trade deal has been struck. I was persuaded myself by these arguments of financial armageddon into voting remain. Our financial services sector will still undeniably be the biggest in Europe. I bow to no one in my antipathy towards most #FBPE headbangers, but I still think we should have stayed. As a semi detached EU member with full access to the single market without being in the single currency, we arguably had the best of both worlds before.

Along_the_Wire

alistair the deal with Japan is more expensive than the deal the EU had. This will happen everywhere. It’ll cost the consumer.

Racism combined with old cunts harking back the golden age of Great Britain are responsible for Brexit. I hope they all die, frankly.

Amps

alistair

Amps what the fuck would Terry Christian know. Thick as mince

Hursty

Jimmy Krankie is concentrating on the task at hand, finding time to reignite the independence campaign and whip up more nationalist rhetoric.

Amps

LT42

Amps haha, stupid like a fox

hugopal

bosstrabs came down in favour of Leave on the basis of sovereignty/accountability/‘how do we remove these bastards when they don’t act in our interests?(at least you can remove a Westminster government)’, which to me is quite a reasonable argument

Erm, is it?

Have none of you actually heard of the European Parliament and European Council?

bosstrabs

hugopal Erm, is it?

Have none of you actually heard of the European Parliament and European Council?

I’m not going to bother wasting time here setting arguments out IN FAVOUR of Brexit, when it’s clear I am a Remainer.

You know damn well there is a fairly obvious ‘problem’ of the likes of Charles Michel not actually being elected by and accountable to voters.

hugopal

bosstrabs the likes of Charles Michel not actually being elected by and accountable to voters

He’s elected by the people the voters elect.

It’s not really any different from say the role of the Bundespresident in Germany’s democratic system (currently Steinmeier).

It’s hardly a huge deal. The EC Presidents get 2.5 year terms and the Council can also vote to remove them. They seem to mostly be mediators and administrators rather than having any significant power.

LT42

Along_the_Wire Racism combined with old cunts harking back the golden age of Great Britain are responsible for Brexit. I hope they all die, frankly.

Its the elephant in the room and you’re probably right, it’s clearer now that people laid their hats on economic pipe dreams, well at least those who aren’t outwardly racist, and they were badly misinformed. The rest of the knuckledraggers driven by prejudice and racism of course.
Those pointing their fingers at bureaucrats in Brussels and not seeing the difference between them and the chickenhawks in Westminster will always be a mystery to me.

alistair

Along_the_Wire oh come on mate, we’ve all got friends that are politically different to us haven’t we? Whether my mate voted Brexit, Tory or is a momentum member is not isn’t high on my criteria of what makes a decent mate.

Along_the_Wire

alistair people that voted Brexit are no fucking friends of mine pal. I can just about get over one or two of them voting Tory.

bosstrabs

hugopal He’s elected by the people the voters elect.

It’s not really any different from say the role of the Bundespresident in Germany’s democratic system (currently Steinmeier).

It’s hardly a huge deal. The EC Presidents get 2.5 year terms and the Council can also vote to remove them. They seem to mostly be mediators and administrators rather than having any significant power.

It is a huge deal and it’s the same for von der Leyden. The executive should be elected by, accountable to, and removed by the people, in whom sovereignty resides.

It majorly pisses me off that the EU and its most ardent supporters don’t fully recognise that this (rightly) allows Euroscepticism to breed.

alistair

hugopal it’s one step removed. Do you know what the average turnout is at EU elections in the UK? About 35%. No one gives a fuck. You call that democratic legitimacy? Who votes for Commissioners (people with real power) and the EU presidents? They are political appointees, often failed politicians like Peter Mandelson. Same with Junker, von der Leyen etc.

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