Election 2024: The Fate of Democracy

alistair

Yeah, what a failure. Much of the young generation are being left behind. They need mentors in the work place and to develop resilience.

Along_the_Wire

alistair this is a right wing trope

Millsy

We have a large JP Morgan office here in Bournemouth and they all get told they have to be in the office all the time. My firm is in the city of London and I go in once a month maybe. I know who I would rather work for and I’m way more effective when I don’t have to commute for 5 hours a day that’s for sure. Dimon is well known for his cuntishness and he and his ilk can fuck right off.

alistair

Millsy Depends on the job. Anyway, we’ve got our networks, paid our dues, learned from others. I wouldn’t recommend WFH to any aspiring young worker. You won’t catch the eye of anyone that counts

RichM

Millsy I could not wfh that amount of time, would drive me insane. I’m in the office 3 days a week and that’s great for me. Get 3 days actually interacting with people in person, which adds huge amounts of value, especially for my team who I manage. Then a couple of days at home for the head down not to be disturbed work.

However everyone’s situation is different. I know if I was 21 today the thought of working in a company where I am sat home on my tod 4-5 days a week would be depressing. Prob wouldn’t consider a job in finance tbh

Along_the_Wire

alistair This is the new normal. It’s crippled old cunts that need to adapt, not everyone else.

Smallman1

This mandated 5 days a week stuff from Dimon has nothing to do with learning from mentors etc etc, it’s about power and a lack of trust.

Smallman1

And a lol for him working 7 days a week, complete bullshit.

mono-stereo

Along_the_Wire yup.

alistair

RichM If I was 21 today, working in sales, I’d want to learn from and socialise with colleagues. I also wouldn’t be able to work effectively in a shared flat.
We’re now mandated to work three days at nice new offices. About right.

Smallman1

3 days a week in the office for me too.

Mondays and Fridays wfh.

Or winning as I like to call it.

whatever

Smallman1 3 days a week in the office for me too.

It’s a wonder they permit you to work from the office. The top level bantz must be very distracting for your colleagues, having to constantly roll around on the floor in fits of laughter.

Along_the_Wire

alistair an awful lot of jobs can be done at home, some jobs are better in the workplace. Start dictating and watch talent move away.

You can tell which media organisations are heavily invested in commercial property, that’s for sure.

Millsy

I landed a virtual contract on the coat tails of COVID and I don’t plan to give that up for love nor money

RichM

Millsy but isn’t it so much better sitting at your desk in your pants watching porn, when you are in the office and not wfh??

Smallman1

Millsy works from home in bootcuts Rich.

Hursty

Flexibility is key for me, I prefer being in work for the bantz but have the choice to wfh if I want/need to

alistair

I am talking about what’s best for those fairly new to the work place not middle aged. Out of sight, out of mind. In a client facing role, where enthusiasm and new ideas are embraced, I am not promoting someone I never see.

Amps

alistair I am talking about what’s best for those fairly new to the work place not middle aged. Out of sight, out of mind. In a client facing role, where enthusiasm and new ideas are embraced, I am not promoting someone I never see.

I think there is some truth in this for people in their first few years of a job, but on the whole the argument against working from home is just rich landlords trying to stop rent losses. You can see them sweating and panicking.

I’ve worked at two in house design / marketing departments, totalling about 12 years, both very corporate, both in office: one place was verging on toxic and at both I would say I spent at least a quarter of my working day in meetings I didn’t need to be in, or listening to people in senior positions just talk at me because they wanted to talk and feel important. I reckon I could have added more value to both jobs if I did all or some of my work from home. Both were an hours commute either way, and both included regular unpaid overtime.

Along_the_Wire

alistair you either already do, or will work in a talent vacuum. It’s already happening at Amazon - they enforced a 5 day working week from the office and thousands have left - I’ll bet it isn’t the shit ones.

vinnyt77

Amps but on the whole the argument against working from home is just rich landlords trying to stop rent losses

There are two other important (and slightly related) factors that don’t get enough coverage IMO:

1) Most managers don’t trust their workforce to work unless they have eyeballs on them, and
2) Most managers have no idea how to set realistic objectives and goals that they want their teams to deliver. As a result, those mnagers feel more comfortable when they can ‘see’ what their teams are working on, in person.

Amps

vinnyt77 1) Most managers don’t trust their workforce to work unless they have eyeballs on them, and
2) Most managers have no idea how to set realistic objectives and goals that they want their teams to deliver. As a result, those mnagers feel more comfortable when they can ‘see’ what their teams are working on, in person.

If you had a hand in employing someone, interviewed them etc. and then don’t trust them you need to have a word with yourself. I’d argue a lot of it is more ego driven though, you can’t lord it over someone and feel important about yourself if you don’t have an audience. I once had a boss sprint up the stairs so he could push past me at the office door and be the first in, promptly giving it the big ‘MORNING TEAM!!!!!’ whilst looking pink in the face and struggling for breath.

whatever

As soon as the shift towards wfh happened, the right wing media were straight in with the bollocks about, not getting the benefits of being noticed in the office. That argument was predicated on the same principle of presenteeism where your value is judged by how long you are in the office, disregarding how effective you are — and the diminishing returns the longer you are at work. If success in your job is contingent on being “noticed” that says more about the workplace — and that it doesn’t matter what impact your work has — or your performance. If you are wfh and doing work that isn’t being noticed, that is an issue with the structure of the workplace — not whether you are wfh / in the office.

whatever

Many companies noted increases in productivity, morale and motivation from wfh and still companies persisted with the shite about not being able to communicate etc.

Sure enough, it transpired that the main factor for them all along was a decrease in property value and the preoccupation with control over the workforce.

The RTO mandates are now being used as a tool to push people to resign, rather than restructure alienating employees, losing talent and holding on to those who are too desperate to stay that they will put up with anything.

It quite clearly had nothing to do with any metric of performance or productivity.

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