The General Covid19 Thread
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303abuser mask mandates and social restrictions have a very clear, positive impact on hospitalizations/icu admissions. i’m not sure how it’s disingenuous to assert that fact
That claim is what I was stating to be not worth the marginal, if any, effects which occur from it. What I was calling disingenuous was rather your claim that lockdowns have in any meaningful way facilitated “regular care and procedures” to continue.
303abuser but we’re better off globally now than had we done nothing and just let covid run it’s course.
There is no way you can justify this assertion, certainly not right now.
Firstly you can consider how states such as Florida and South Dakota fared vs the rest of the US, and Sweden relative to the rest of Europe, or England now relative to Wales/Scotland/mainland Europe..
We are also still yet to see the full ripple effects trickle through from things such as: lack of treatment of other conditions, e.g. cancer; disruption to children’s schooling; the truly humongous extra debt accrued by governments to support lockdowns which will somehow have to be paid back in future; the rampant inflation and subsequent rise in living costs partly fuelled by supply shortages and bottlenecks; additional restrictions on personal liberty which may well be retained by governments even after covid has become endemic or disappeared. There will be plenty more negative knock-on effects which will come to light as well I’m sure.
303abuser and i still have no idea what you’re talking about regarding a panic around hospitalization number resulting from the flu. guardian headlines aren’t healthcare data.
It is/was a meme in the UK that literally every winter newspapers would have headlines claiming that the upcoming flu season is breaking/will break the NHS, so colour me a bit sceptical when the same claims get rolled out by the same sources with regards to covid (especially when they’re still being parroted even about Omicron). I’d be surprised if the UK was the only country which had this phenomenon to some degree with regards to its hospital system, the flu season and newspaper headlines.
hugopal there are such things as being too cautious and risk averse.
England in being more brave in opening up earlier and avoiding further lockdowns is now reaping big dividends. Meanwhile continental Europe has completely fucked itself my being more “cautious” and delaying, which rather just had the knock-on effect of pushing the more dangerous Delta cases back to the winter.
I agree with this.
Don’t know if tents in car parks are a real possibility or who the hell this Prof is but she’s dropping some knowledge here..
Along_the_Wire and the delicious irony of France, literally now awash with Omicron, banning travel from the UK a week or two back.
Fauci is not the boogieman you on the far left and far right make him out to be. Nor does he have the power you imagine he has. You want to nit pick one decision here or there, missing the forest for the trees, go for it. You’ll only be making yourself and your small echo chamber even more angry. Hopefully one of the nutjobs doesn’t do anything too crazy.
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jonattonyeah You’ll only be making yourself and your small echo chamber even more angry.
Lol! Small, righto. If it’s so small then why is Bernie the President?!
hugopal i think part of what you don’t understand is that it’s not the same everywhere. the same approach at the same time in different parts of the world will yield different outcomes. delta completely fucked our hospitals in this province back in september specifically because our government who shares you’re “who gives a shit” attitude removed ALL restrictions too early. when they put them back in place, the wave started to subside two weeks earlier. the approach you’re advocating for directly killed people and will contribute to all of the ripple effects you mentioned.
and i still can’t comprehend how you equate guardian headlines to a healthcare problem. stop reading that shit, we are all well aware, or should be, that for profit media doesn’t serve to provide unbiased information.
i’ve said here before that i’m in the get vaccinated and move on camp, but that isn’t endorsing a free for all when hospitals are on the edge of not providing basic care. that has happened here and in many other places around the world.
I personally think The Guardian does excellent features and their “live” posts when something of circumstance is happening is very helpful. But their dailly reporting on Covid hasn’t been good. But like you said, they’re trying to take a global snapshot when there really isn’t one. They paint to broad a brush with data that needs to be contextualized. I know the media want to be first and informative, and people want up to date information, but these things take time. Real time data isn’t very helpful, unfortunately.
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303abuser the approach you’re advocating for directly killed people
The vast majority of people who die from covid are still those who would die soon anyway from some respiratory illness or another. Plus, delaying cancer screenings and treatments is also directly killing people.
303abuser and will contribute to all of the ripple effects you mentioned.
How? Hardly.
303abuser and i still can’t comprehend how you equate guardian headlines to a healthcare problem
I’m not, but my point is that every year there are people making loud claims that the healthcare system is, or will be, overloaded, and the “problem” typically turns out to be overblown. Hence why I’m sceptical when similar claims are made about how hospitals are coping or not with covid, especially when the reality has almost invariably turned out to be far less worrying than the claims and predictions.
Maybe where you are in Canada the hospitals did crumble under the strain, but again, for such claims most people will be relying on the unreliable media as a source, and here I am having to rely on you as a source for that.
zackster because a sympathetic people can make others seriously sick, according to Fauci
You need to rewrite this sentence.
zackster Which Fauci should I trust: Fauci from July who wanted to cancel my vacation or Fauci from August who wants to send me back into to salt mines?
You work in a salt mine?!
jonattonyeah the abolition of for profit news is absolutely necessary, as we’ll never get the news we need without reverting back to that. but that’s an entirely different discussion. bottom line is that influenza hasn’t and isn’t causing hospital capacity issues anywhere. i’m open to being proved wrong, it’s just not something i’ve ever heard or seen.
hugopal i see we’re back to the “they were going to die anyways” argument. fuck off with that, it’s stupid, even for you.
what don’t you understand about hospital capacities? they’re finite. if there are no doctors/nurses to staff beds because the wards are filled with covid patients, you don’t get necessary care if you’re in a car accident, for example. we were at 180% of icu capacity here in september as a direct result of loosening restrictions, which delayed acute care and delayed thousands of screening and surgeries. that’s why you can’t just let this run wild, there are repercussions.
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303abuser influenza hasn’t and isn’t causing hospital capacity issues anywhere
Certainly not here. People masking up for the better part of 20 months did wonders for stomping the flu out (for the time being). I know I’ll be doing the mask thing moving forward during the winter months on public transportation and busy indoor spaces like grocery stores. Took me a minute but they don’t bother me in the slightest in circumstances where I don’t need to talk or listen.
EDIT and people getting the flu shot in combo with their booster or second Covid shot. I know loads of people who are now good with flu vaccinations who were previously not on board or didn’t care. I never had a choice.
jonattonyeah the only thing that really bothers me about masks is not being able to read people in social settings and listening, like you mentioned. my hearing is shit at the best of times in loud environments and masks made me realize that i use physical cues more than i thought.
Yeah I get that. Where my work is located is in an absolute madhouse of a neighborhood. Not being able to tell disposition on the part of the homeless, the addicts, and those taking advantage of them makes for a lot of paranoia when on the streets. Just can’t tell when you can’t really see their faces.
Masks have also been blamed for robberies. You walk into a fancy store three years ago in sunglasses and a mask, you’d get a lot of attention. Now it’s been normalized and that provides a lot of anonymity. Whether that’s true or excuse making is up to us to decide, I guess.
that’s exactly what i mean. even just bumping into someone, normally a sorry and smile would suffice, but some of that’s been lost. if masks become the norm, between that and tech, we’re going to see some drastic changes in how people interact.
Already seeing it around here given this is tech central. Quick story, was tending at the bar like, I dunno, three years ago. Dude is at the bar with his laptop. Fine, whatever. Beautiful girl sits next to him (we’re lucky in that regard). She was beautiful. He’s typing away. Not paying any attention. And the thing is, 303, I’ll do the legwork! I’m a good talker and socializer - and everyone has to talk to me ’cause I’m the bartender! It’s not hard to get a conversation going between two people sitting next to each other. Nothing. She leaves after one drink and his buddy comes in. I overhear laptard complaining how hard it is to meet women in the Bay. I’m like, the fuck?!?!?! She was right there! Not to go all old man yells cloud, but many of the younger generation around here can’t seem to do anything without a screen in front of them. Again, this is tech central so that’s possibly unique to here. Anyway, I banned laptops at the bar after that. Table? Fine. But the bar is for socializing.
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jonattonyeah i’d imagine that’s the tip of the iceberg for what’s to come. my wife’s brothers are in their mid 30s and i hang out with them periodically. it’s fine in a large group, but i refuse to go anywhere individually with them any more. spend 2 hours at lunch staring at them in silence while they’re looking at a screen, it’s a horrible way to socialize. dropping birth rates are probably a good thing, but there are social ramifications we’re just starting to see now.