hugopal i think part of what you don’t understand is that it’s not the same everywhere. the same approach at the same time in different parts of the world will yield different outcomes. delta completely fucked our hospitals in this province back in september specifically because our government who shares you’re “who gives a shit” attitude removed ALL restrictions too early. when they put them back in place, the wave started to subside two weeks earlier. the approach you’re advocating for directly killed people and will contribute to all of the ripple effects you mentioned.

and i still can’t comprehend how you equate guardian headlines to a healthcare problem. stop reading that shit, we are all well aware, or should be, that for profit media doesn’t serve to provide unbiased information.

i’ve said here before that i’m in the get vaccinated and move on camp, but that isn’t endorsing a free for all when hospitals are on the edge of not providing basic care. that has happened here and in many other places around the world.

      hugopal because a sympathetic people can make others seriously sick, according to Fauci. Not my words, his. Which Fauci should I trust: Fauci from July who wanted to cancel my vacation or Fauci from August who wants to send me back into to salt mines?

          303abuser

          I personally think The Guardian does excellent features and their “live” posts when something of circumstance is happening is very helpful. But their dailly reporting on Covid hasn’t been good. But like you said, they’re trying to take a global snapshot when there really isn’t one. They paint to broad a brush with data that needs to be contextualized. I know the media want to be first and informative, and people want up to date information, but these things take time. Real time data isn’t very helpful, unfortunately.

              303abuser the approach you’re advocating for directly killed people

              The vast majority of people who die from covid are still those who would die soon anyway from some respiratory illness or another. Plus, delaying cancer screenings and treatments is also directly killing people.

              303abuser and will contribute to all of the ripple effects you mentioned.

              How? Hardly.

              303abuser and i still can’t comprehend how you equate guardian headlines to a healthcare problem

              I’m not, but my point is that every year there are people making loud claims that the healthcare system is, or will be, overloaded, and the “problem” typically turns out to be overblown. Hence why I’m sceptical when similar claims are made about how hospitals are coping or not with covid, especially when the reality has almost invariably turned out to be far less worrying than the claims and predictions.

              Maybe where you are in Canada the hospitals did crumble under the strain, but again, for such claims most people will be relying on the unreliable media as a source, and here I am having to rely on you as a source for that.

                      zackster because a sympathetic people can make others seriously sick, according to Fauci

                      You need to rewrite this sentence.

                      zackster Which Fauci should I trust: Fauci from July who wanted to cancel my vacation or Fauci from August who wants to send me back into to salt mines?

                      You work in a salt mine?!

                          jonattonyeah the abolition of for profit news is absolutely necessary, as we’ll never get the news we need without reverting back to that. but that’s an entirely different discussion. bottom line is that influenza hasn’t and isn’t causing hospital capacity issues anywhere. i’m open to being proved wrong, it’s just not something i’ve ever heard or seen.

                              hugopal i see we’re back to the “they were going to die anyways” argument. fuck off with that, it’s stupid, even for you.

                              what don’t you understand about hospital capacities? they’re finite. if there are no doctors/nurses to staff beds because the wards are filled with covid patients, you don’t get necessary care if you’re in a car accident, for example. we were at 180% of icu capacity here in september as a direct result of loosening restrictions, which delayed acute care and delayed thousands of screening and surgeries. that’s why you can’t just let this run wild, there are repercussions.

                                303abuser influenza hasn’t and isn’t causing hospital capacity issues anywhere

                                Certainly not here. People masking up for the better part of 20 months did wonders for stomping the flu out (for the time being). I know I’ll be doing the mask thing moving forward during the winter months on public transportation and busy indoor spaces like grocery stores. Took me a minute but they don’t bother me in the slightest in circumstances where I don’t need to talk or listen.

                                EDIT and people getting the flu shot in combo with their booster or second Covid shot. I know loads of people who are now good with flu vaccinations who were previously not on board or didn’t care. I never had a choice.

                                    jonattonyeah the only thing that really bothers me about masks is not being able to read people in social settings and listening, like you mentioned. my hearing is shit at the best of times in loud environments and masks made me realize that i use physical cues more than i thought.

                                        303abuser

                                        Yeah I get that. Where my work is located is in an absolute madhouse of a neighborhood. Not being able to tell disposition on the part of the homeless, the addicts, and those taking advantage of them makes for a lot of paranoia when on the streets. Just can’t tell when you can’t really see their faces.

                                        Masks have also been blamed for robberies. You walk into a fancy store three years ago in sunglasses and a mask, you’d get a lot of attention. Now it’s been normalized and that provides a lot of anonymity. Whether that’s true or excuse making is up to us to decide, I guess.

                                          that’s exactly what i mean. even just bumping into someone, normally a sorry and smile would suffice, but some of that’s been lost. if masks become the norm, between that and tech, we’re going to see some drastic changes in how people interact.

                                            303abuser

                                            Already seeing it around here given this is tech central. Quick story, was tending at the bar like, I dunno, three years ago. Dude is at the bar with his laptop. Fine, whatever. Beautiful girl sits next to him (we’re lucky in that regard). She was beautiful. He’s typing away. Not paying any attention. And the thing is, 303, I’ll do the legwork! I’m a good talker and socializer - and everyone has to talk to me ’cause I’m the bartender! It’s not hard to get a conversation going between two people sitting next to each other. Nothing. She leaves after one drink and his buddy comes in. I overhear laptard complaining how hard it is to meet women in the Bay. I’m like, the fuck?!?!?! She was right there! Not to go all old man yells cloud, but many of the younger generation around here can’t seem to do anything without a screen in front of them. Again, this is tech central so that’s possibly unique to here. Anyway, I banned laptops at the bar after that. Table? Fine. But the bar is for socializing.

                                                jonattonyeah i’d imagine that’s the tip of the iceberg for what’s to come. my wife’s brothers are in their mid 30s and i hang out with them periodically. it’s fine in a large group, but i refuse to go anywhere individually with them any more. spend 2 hours at lunch staring at them in silence while they’re looking at a screen, it’s a horrible way to socialize. dropping birth rates are probably a good thing, but there are social ramifications we’re just starting to see now.

                                                    303abuser

                                                    I’m hoping as the technology is normalized the very young will grow up knowing its trappings and seek some sort of balance. Am I confident in that? I dunno. Not really. I’ve seen a group of like four at the bar, friends, all together, in silence, on their phones. I’m like, are you texting each other? Bizarre compared to what I grew up with and I’m only 40. I’m sure the olders were mocking us for playing Goldeneye in a basement with each other for hours on end. But at least we were talking!

                                                        jonattonyeah i don’t share the optimism that people will be aware it’s happening. when you grow up with the tech that’s available now, you don’t know any other way. it’s like being indoctrinated into religion at an early age, it’s very difficult to overcome. i’m very grateful to have grown up without it, i think it’s a better way to live from a social perspective.

                                                          zackster I didn’t say he came up with it on his own. He was told to do it just like he was told to lie about not needing a mask. He is too busy working on the next scamdemic to concoct his own draconian back to work policies.

                                                          BERKlife

                                                              Where are we at with this thread?

                                                              Seems like everyone has lost the plot, apart from Hugo who’s consistently a complete plank.

                                                                Smallman1 So many mini battles going on in this and the Biden thread…

                                                                Hugo vs Jules
                                                                Zackster vs MC
                                                                Zackster vs Poundwater

                                                                You don’t know whose position to support because they’re all horrendous