Sajid Javid especially can go and do one with his comments about big spike in deaths….

    Jules72 and Sir Keir wouldn’t have lifted restrictions in July and would have imposed a pre Christmas lockdown.

      Jules72 People in the U.K. finally beginning to twig that Onicrom may be the end of severe covid.. remember this projection of a range of deaths of 25k-75k by the end of April…. A little more than 2 weeks ago… these numbers looked stupid then and even more stupid now..

      Jules72 Sajid Javid especially can go and do one with his comments about big spike in deaths….

      Get a load of Captain Hindsight here - who only a couple of weeks ago was still was happy to allow further restrictions, including the closing of nightclubs, “to avoid” the so-called “worst case scenario” - which was always a million miles off being a reality.

        alistair and Sir Keir wouldn’t have lifted restrictions in July and would have imposed a pre Christmas lockdown.

        Yep, one need only look at the absolute clusterfuck of Welsh Labour and the SNP to see how totally unnecessary so many of the restrictions are and have been, and to register the extent to which they’re motivated by political and temperamental viewpoints.

        Generally those leaning socialist have been much more risk averse and lacking in minerals, so have been much more keen to hunker down and impose restrictions.

        Furthermore, as they and their supporters are more likely to work in the public sector or low-paid roles, and less likely to be “wealth creators” they’re much more happy to see the economy trashed and dynamism reduced.

        hugopal errr no… go back and look at what I saying early on on Omicron… you don’t understand what my arguments are, so let me help you: 1) it’s likely the end of severe covid… been saying that for a long time, 2) in the short sharp Omicron spike we are seeing, it’s ridiculous and inconsistent to be contemplating lockdown AND still have stuff like nightclubs open, 3) I said on this forum the worst case scenario of 25k best case deaths was way too pessimistic..get it now you Fckng moron?

        Now go and have a wank in your bedroom and get it out of your system alright?

          Jules72 2) in the short sharp Omicron spike we are seeing, it’s ridiculous and inconsistent to be contemplating lockdown AND still have stuff like nightclubs open… get it now you Fckng moron?

          Nope - the point is that despite your sometime scepticism on Omicron, your automatic response when another lockdown was being contemplated again was not to pushback on it and point out as I had that it was completely absurd that they were even being contemplated at all to begin with. Your inclination was still capitulation and compliance, and that the government should have locked down sooner, rather than later if they were considering it, as opposed to them rejecting the idea completely, which was ultimately the correct course.

          And as I’ve pointed out with the nature article that vinny posted, and also in light of the demographics of club goers, just closing nightclubs would do bugger-all other than further damage the industry which, by virtue of your being on this board, one would have imagined you should rather be supporting. However, perhaps you are in fact so much of a “jaded” clubber that you don’t mind the sector being destroyed for what is repeatedly being shown as pointless excuses. You suggested we should remain “cautious” and claimed it was “simple risk management” your words - rather than it being simple needless exceessive risk aversion and puritanism with costly consequences.

            I still think we need restrictions now. Not because it’s dangerous with vaccines, but because the society won’t function with half the population isolating at the same time. People will die because the nursing staffs are down due to everyone being on sick leave with covid. Just read about a testing station in the US being closed because everyone working there had covid.

              That costs a lot too Hugo you dumb fuck.

              hugopal “ Nope - the point is that despite your sometime scepticism on Omicron, your automatic response when another lockdown was being contemplated again was not to pushback on it and point out as I had that it was completely absurd that they were even being contemplated at all to begin with. ”

              No… I was unsure whether a lockdown was required. That tiny brain of yours doesn’t seem to understand that the NHS is short of perhaps 15% of its staff and that there is a chance bed occupancy reaches 100%, particularly in London over the next 1-2 weeks, and then no one gets the health care they need from that point on.

              In view of that, If freedoms are to be retained for some hospitality and withdrawn for others, 95% of people would choose clubs to be closed and (say) restaurants to be left open. Clubs and mass gatherings spread the virus rapidly, so if there are to be any restrictions, it makes sense for those to be shut down…. It’s not rocket science. 🤦‍♂️

              Also get into your thick skull that this omicron spike will be short and sharp… any closures would be 2-3 weeks to get the NHS through the very short term.

                Jules72 No… I was unsure whether a lockdown was required.

                Erm… exactly, because it wasn’t required - so yes you’re now being “Captain Hindsight” with your posturing in downplaying Omicron, when a few weeks ago you still seemed open to supporting any further restrictions which the government had been considering based on their bullshit numbers.

                Jules72 In view of that, If freedoms are to be retained for some hospitality and withdrawn for others, 95% of people would choose clubs to be closed and (say) restaurants to be left open

                What is popular amongst the masses, and what is correct, are not always the same thing - just look at Brexit. Plus, why is it that you’re even advocating for what the masses might think when it would damage your own interests?! You seem content to have a tyranny of the majority.

                Jules72 Clubs and mass gatherings spread the virus rapidly

                Again, go back to the nature article which vinny posted; closing nightclubs would do bugger-all.

                Jules72 Also get into your thick skull that this omicron spike will be short and sharp… any closures would be 2-3 weeks to get the NHS through the very short term.

                Sure, “two weeks to flatten the curve”; dipshit.

                Homegrove but because the society won’t function with half the population isolating at the same time

                And how much of this is also complete bullshit and unnecessary?! Again, prior to covid when people caught a cold, or god-forbid the flu, they just took time off if/when they were feeling ill and then came back when they were improved.

                Now we’re literally forcing people to isolate for a week+ even when they have zero symptoms, as well as forcing people they’ve been in contact with to isolate even when they have no symptoms and may even be negative. And all this for something which in Omicron is certainly no more deadly than the flu, and potentially even less so.

                Plus, even based on the earlier waves prior to Omicron, as per the study in my post last week cutting back key health services because of Covid such as cancer screenings and treatment could be leading to as many life years lost as potentially prevented.

                Its pretty crazy (predictable) to watch the pivot the White House has made during the past week. 2000
                deaths a day is suddenly a win, and 5 days of isolation for a symptomatic cases is plenty. They are going to make sure the economy is running with as much steam as the boilers will allow come Jan 3.

                Imagine being stuck next to Hugo on a long-haul. The stewardesses would run out of duct tape.

                  Imagine getting a bumper sticker or yard sign supporting this bureaucrat worm

                    zackster as per my post above, that seems like one of the few sensible things he’s actually said.

                    Also, 2000 deaths per day is half last year’s peak in the US.

                      hugopal Unfortunately, I don’t disagree that the death rate is greatly improved. My point about Fauci being a lying shitcunt piece of fucking shit is based around the fact that he was the same mouth piece warning about the danger that the a symptomatic posed to the high risk community. He kept saying this well after vaccines were widely available. The only thing that changed his tune was that the CEO of Delta threw a massive fit that no one would be working in the airports to plunge the jug hooters’ tampons and elephant shits down the toilets.

                        hugopal as per my post above, that seems like one of the few sensible things he’s actually said.

                        That’s exactly what HG pointed out earlier. The exact same thing, Hugo. You’re all over the fuckin place. Arguing in an empty room would be a delight for you I’d say.

                        The #INSIGHT in this thread today is SEARING MY FUCKING EYEBROWS OFF.

                        Give it a rest you BERKS, things change

                          Mad_Cyril Give it a rest you BERKS, things change

                          this is what Cyril said to his family when the first lockdown was announced.

                          hugopal You suggested we should remain “cautious” and claimed it was “simple risk management” your words

                          have to love that almost 2 years into this, cautious and risk management are concepts you won’t entertain.

                            303abuser there are such things as being too cautious and risk averse.

                            England in being more brave in opening up earlier and avoiding further lockdowns is now reaping big dividends. Meanwhile continental Europe has completely fucked itself my being more “cautious” and delaying, which rather just had the knock-on effect of pushing the more dangerous Delta cases back to the winter.

                              hugopal which rather just had the knock-on effect of pushing the more dangerous Delta cases back to the winter.

                              so you’re saying that restrictions are helpful at flattening the curve and capable of reducing the load on stressed healthcare systems?

                                LT42 Imagine being stuck next to Hugo on a long-haul. The stewardesses would run out of duct tape.

                                Lol!

                                303abuser so you’re saying that restrictions are helpful at flattening the curve and capable of reducing the load on stressed healthcare systems?

                                Are you Cathy Newman?!

                                At best they partly delay the inevitable. However, while also potentially causing potentially more life years lost than they save, and also generally fucking up people’s lives and livelihoods, and shifting humongous costs with zero benefits to younger generations.

                                There is and was excessive panic every winter about supposed over-burdened health systems every winter with flu. However, the health system should exist to save lives; society shouldn’t be destroyed to just ease things for the health system.

                                  hugopal Are you Cathy Newman?!

                                  no idea who that is.

                                  hugopal At best they partly delay the inevitable.

                                  yep, that’s the point. delay to keep hospitalizations low enough to continue regular care and procedures along side covid treatment.

                                  hugopal There is and was excessive panic every winter about supposed over-burdened health systems every winter with flu.

                                  are you referring to any particular place? i’ve never seen that here, not once ever.

                                    zackster

                                    Oh good grief. Fauci doesn’t make these decisions on his own, in some weird vacuum. He’s just the messenger.

                                    We were going to move to 5 days either way, if the NIH and CDC were on board or not. And, yes, part of the motivation is economic given the safety net of additional unemployment is no longer in place. It’s not to help businesses out, but hourly employees. People were also avoiding getting tested ’cause they didn’t want to lose work. That’s not ideal. Is it perfect? Nothing about any of this is and it’s a moving target, but we have to make compromises. The data we have so far says vaccinated and asympotmatic don’t pose much risk and this variant has a shorter incubation period. So the call was made.

                                    For the places with lower vaccination rates, those fucking people aren’t going to isolate anyway so whatever. They have shown that they don’t care - well, until they show up at the hospital.

                                      303abuser no idea who that is.

                                      UK news journalist who conducted one of the most painfully embarrassing, abysmal interviews (from an interviewer’s perspective ) in our TV history.

                                      303abuser yep, that’s the point. delay to keep hospitalizations low enough to continue regular care and procedures along side covid treatment.

                                      Lol:
                                      “to keep hospitalizations low enough to continue regular care and procedures along side covid treatment.”
                                      like fuck is that what they’ve been doing, you disingenuous prick. Look at the years being lost to delayed cancer screenings and treatments from excessive lockdowns.

                                      And as I said, even then they only “partly” kick the can down the road, and sometimes they fail at even doing that - for instance Wales’ two week “circuit breaker” lockdown last year did absolutely bugger -all.

                                      Ultimately, they create more problems than they solve, and they cost far more than is justified.

                                      303abuser are you referring to any particular place? i’ve never seen that here, not once ever.

                                      And it’s surely not just a UK meme.

                                        hugopal mask mandates and social restrictions have a very clear, positive impact on hospitalizations/icu admissions. i’m not sure how it’s disingenuous to assert that fact. you can argue that some implementations have been better or worse than others, but we’re better off globally now than had we done nothing and just let covid run it’s course.

                                        and i still have no idea what you’re talking about regarding a panic around hospitalization number resulting from the flu. guardian headlines aren’t healthcare data.

                                          jonattonyeah I didn’t say he came up with it on his own. He was told to do it just like he was told to lie about not needing a mask. He is too busy working on the next scamdemic to concoct his own draconian back to work policies.

                                            zackster his own draconian back to work policies

                                            How is stopping people who aren’t sick from needlessly isolating “draconian”?

                                              303abuser mask mandates and social restrictions have a very clear, positive impact on hospitalizations/icu admissions. i’m not sure how it’s disingenuous to assert that fact

                                              That claim is what I was stating to be not worth the marginal, if any, effects which occur from it. What I was calling disingenuous was rather your claim that lockdowns have in any meaningful way facilitated “regular care and procedures” to continue.

                                              303abuser but we’re better off globally now than had we done nothing and just let covid run it’s course.

                                              There is no way you can justify this assertion, certainly not right now.

                                              Firstly you can consider how states such as Florida and South Dakota fared vs the rest of the US, and Sweden relative to the rest of Europe, or England now relative to Wales/Scotland/mainland Europe..

                                              We are also still yet to see the full ripple effects trickle through from things such as: lack of treatment of other conditions, e.g. cancer; disruption to children’s schooling; the truly humongous extra debt accrued by governments to support lockdowns which will somehow have to be paid back in future; the rampant inflation and subsequent rise in living costs partly fuelled by supply shortages and bottlenecks; additional restrictions on personal liberty which may well be retained by governments even after covid has become endemic or disappeared. There will be plenty more negative knock-on effects which will come to light as well I’m sure.

                                              303abuser and i still have no idea what you’re talking about regarding a panic around hospitalization number resulting from the flu. guardian headlines aren’t healthcare data.

                                              It is/was a meme in the UK that literally every winter newspapers would have headlines claiming that the upcoming flu season is breaking/will break the NHS, so colour me a bit sceptical when the same claims get rolled out by the same sources with regards to covid (especially when they’re still being parroted even about Omicron). I’d be surprised if the UK was the only country which had this phenomenon to some degree with regards to its hospital system, the flu season and newspaper headlines.

                                                hugopal there are such things as being too cautious and risk averse.

                                                England in being more brave in opening up earlier and avoiding further lockdowns is now reaping big dividends. Meanwhile continental Europe has completely fucked itself my being more “cautious” and delaying, which rather just had the knock-on effect of pushing the more dangerous Delta cases back to the winter.

                                                I agree with this.

                                                  Don’t know if tents in car parks are a real possibility or who the hell this Prof is but she’s dropping some knowledge here..

                                                  Along_the_Wire and the delicious irony of France, literally now awash with Omicron, banning travel from the UK a week or two back.

                                                  zackster

                                                  Fauci is not the boogieman you on the far left and far right make him out to be. Nor does he have the power you imagine he has. You want to nit pick one decision here or there, missing the forest for the trees, go for it. You’ll only be making yourself and your small echo chamber even more angry. Hopefully one of the nutjobs doesn’t do anything too crazy.