alistair completely agree, but that needs the experienced people in the office too, and at the same time as the youngsters.

    Along_the_Wire If you WFH most of the time, you won’t be getting promoted at our place.

    Yeh that’s pretty much same at the place I was at and now contract for. Which is pretty much why I stayed at home as much as possible. Not interested in higher management, prefer a life.

      Fuck the young guns. I want to be able to make egg on toast, play a game of Hot Wheels on the PS4 and have a midday wank.

      The trick with working from home is get up, do as much work as possible. Make it fully noticed by as many people as possible you are up and at it, then at around 930am go back to bed for a full hour or so with your phone ringing the talking clock and call wait off so it’s engaged. 👍

      alistair I hear what you’re saying and I agree that nothing builds rapport like being in the same room.

      But the rise of zoom and teams calls have also contributed to me building rapport with people on the other side of the world or even the other side of the country. People that previously you might see a few times of year, or never, because getting together is too inconvenient - now you can “see” them (online) a few times a week. And you get to see them in their home office environment rather than in offices or at formal gatherings.

      Care to respond to that point?

          Have never worked a day of my life from home. I work face to face in technical wholesale, and was at work every day of what was the version of lockdown we had in Finland. Except for when I had covid. Lol.

          Would have much rather been at home mind, wearing a mask for 10 hours a day for 1,5 years will not be missed.

          C_J for those of us that have already done those hard yards and have established relationships, Zoom and Teams has been very additive. The ability to present and share marketing and sales collateral on the screen has been especially beneficial. It has made the phone redundant in a way but it is still no substitute for a client meeting lunch. I am thinking that for younger workers in teams, climbing the greasy ladder, the office is essential for socialising ideas, building relationships with colleagues and managers and problem solving. I am also not sure I would have been able to have worked effectively in the places I was living m my twenties

              C_J But the rise of zoom and teams calls have also contributed to me building rapport with people on the other side of the world or even the other side of the country.

              LOL, nice try. But I don’t want ‘rapport’ with Rhouses in Hyderabad thanks.

                bit of an odd comment to be fair Dave. But thanks for your contribution.

                alistair for those of us that have already done those hard yards and have established relationships, Zoom and Teams has been very additive. The ability to present and share marketing and sales collateral on the screen has been especially beneficial. It has made the phone redundant in a way but it is still no substitute for a client meeting lunch. I am thinking that for younger workers in teams, climbing the greasy ladder, the office is essential for socialising ideas, building relationships with colleagues and managers and problem solving. I am also not sure I would have been able to have worked effectively in the places I was living m my twenties

                ali summed up in one post.

                  you know what’s really annoying? being sat in an open plan office trying to meet a deadline while surrounded by cunts on teams calls shouting into their headsets / surrounded by young cunts socialising.

                  another daft office thing which should be obsolete is searching for meeting rooms / cunts occupying meeting rooms and way past their allotted times.

                  A lot of recent research has confirmed what anyone who has ever worked in an open-plan office already knows:

                  Productivity is lower, morale and mental health is reduced, absenteeism increases.

                  All so you can ‘collaborate’ (which can be facilitated in other ways anyway).

                    bosstrabs

                    100%. Plus, that team collaboration is just the term they use when they really mean we want you in the office so we can see what you are doing. That has always been the rub for many employers that they just don’t trust people to wfh.

                        whatever as a manager, wouldn’t you want to have some team oversight and I don’t mean staring at them in their living room with the dog barking. Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned is the difficulty in training new employees remotely

                            alistair I’m a manager. I gauge my team based on their output. If someone isn’t delivering on their targets and actions I’m not sure how being in person or remote makes much difference.

                                Millsy My initial post supported hybrid not full time office or virtual so it’s a bit of a moot point. Every situation is different and I know what works and what doesn’t in the context of my sales team. Have you closed your office?

                                    alistair nah. But we have downsized. The reductions in global office rental and T&S is a positive.

                                      alistair

                                      What Millsy said below:

                                      alistair I’m a manager. I gauge my team based on their output. If someone isn’t delivering on their targets and actions I’m not sure how being in person or remote makes much difference.

                                      I’m also a manager. Oversight can be achieved in numerous ways. Virtual team meetings, one-to-ones, what they are telling you that helps you to understand the general mood/morale, but in particular the output, as Millsy said. If they’re not achieving targets, missing deadlines etc, you know something is amiss and more attention does need to be paid to how they are spending their time.

                                      The reality is that the horse has bolted and all of the old hackneyed reasons for now allowing people to work flexibly has been shattered. Clinging on to the idea of putting in face time and if you are doing x no. of hours sat in front of your desk is outmoded and (where it concerns people who take pride in doing excessively long hours in the office) it has been shown to be counterproductive.

                                      If you do a job where you have to physically show people how to do something as part of training, you probably do a job where you can’t work from home anyway. I’ve trained plenty of people from home because it uses the same ingredients as it would do if I was in an office setting.

                                          whatever I have covered all of the pros and cons in my previous posts. It depends on what your job is and how much you rely on the help of others to do it. It’s also evident that younger employees have shared living spaces that aren’t conducive to productive working.

                                            whatever It was a mixed picture during the pandemic with some of the sales team complaining about feeling isolated and unsupported and keen to get back to the office. Others would have preferred to work remotely full time, so I insisted we all spent at minimum of two days a week in the office and we would co-ordinate team meetings and a last Thursday of the month drinks.